Nids tactics

[Frosty the Pirate]

Well, not to derail this but there is SOMETHING you can do. It's not gunna be fun, but you can atleast try.

You going to need to add more shooting to your list. Specifically, higher strength shooting. If you can muster enough things with 24"+ Str 8+ or the ability to get into a rear-arc (like a flyrant) you can really screw with wave serpents. Haywire, Ordnance, Melta, etc all also really murder a wave serpent that dropped its shield. So the new Guard dex should really help even out the serpent spam meta.

Another trick is not to face it head on, put your units that are strong against wave serpent in reserve so that you get the alpha strike and he just gets to pound your gants/etc. You can't out-alpha strike serpent spam, but you can play unconventionally against it. It's math-hammered to nearly always win when you try to out-damage it, but it is only strong at conventional tactics. Outflanking, Flyer/FMC spam, reserving all play a role in beating this list.

In fact, I feel like 7 serpents would lose to the 4x FMC Nid list, especially if you can get 1st turn on them. It's gunna be a horrible game, but if you can knock out half of his serpents, you'll win the end-game because his damage output drops off so much.

Personally, I hope all those stupid FOTM eldar players get their teeth kicked in by the new guard book. Traditionally Eldar isn't very good vs Guard, because guard force you to play attrition warfare. But I have no idea how the new book works yet.

[danydaigle24]

Lol I totally understand and it was shitty game trust me... I hate Eldar with passion they broke the game so bad even Bruno is moving away for them hes bored winning all tournament around here with not even a close competition... with them you dont even have to think you just park them and open fire and if something is near disembark all the guardian and rend them to death was so retarded...

ard boyz my wife is working so I have to watch the kids cant make it

[danydaigle24]

I start the game had 3 flying MC were all dead turn 1 and I destroy 1 weave serpent

[Jack Shrapnel]

yep, wave serpents just utterly destroy FMC's. I'd be surprised if a flyrant lived past turn one.

ray - you can't outflank anything that can hurt a serpent in the nid dex. Nothing with the ability (or that can be granted it through hive commander) has a gun that can hurt it.

The sheer amount of high AV that guard can field can certainly give wave serpents pause, so I'm interested if that shakes up the meta.

I've found with playing nids vs. Eldar, a couple serpents is manageable if you can be very aggressive... three is getting pretty dicey... anymore and you just don't have the ability to shift it. Problem is that the things that can reliably hurt a wave serpent with nids are extremely rare.

- Forget close combat, no decent Eldar player is going to let an MC get that close (you could outflank a tervigon with hive commander, but then it sits there for a turn not attacking and either gets shot off the board or the serpents just move away)

- flyrants in rear arc? He has to let you fly behind him... so two turns minimum. With 7 serpents that flyrant isn't crossing the board... even two.

- a decent sized unit of dakkafexes with onslaught on them can usually take one out first turn... but that is a crapton of points to deal with a 140 point transport (3x as much!) and if it's got holofields, cover and maybe moved... yeah gets even more dicey at that point... and that's ONE.

- crone vector strikes can stop one fairly reliably (no cover and all) but if he isn't shooting your FMC's with his serpents (heck two per FMC should be easily sufficient to kill them all in one turn) you're smiling. They won't let you smile... it's right there in the dex under wave serpents pg. 23 "other player not allowed to smile or have fun"

- Hive guard can wreck them. So this may give the Eldar player something else to shoot at first turn. again onslaught is mandatory due to the limited range.

An alternative to what you're running and pretty much as anti-eldar as you can get would be a less initially aggressive list that I call the brick. The key is that with 4 rolls on the table you hopefully will get catalyst. The prime joins the venomthropes to soak wounds (why he's not the warlord!) and if you get catalyst ONCE the venomthropes/prime are the target... with a 3+/FNP and shrouded you should be able to last the 2 turns needed to cross and in combat he's no slouch. If he ignores the tyrannofexes you will wreck him. If he focuses on them he won't get them all by the time you get close enough to engage so long as you can keep them alive (after turn 1 the t-fexes can become the target for catalyst, especially if you get it twice as one should die)

HQ:

Deathleaper - hiding out of LOS - extremely easy to do due to the wall of death before him (stealth + shrouding from thropes and can only snap fire against him? pretty decent)

Tyranid prime - maw claws of thyrax - he's a wound soaker for the thropes and decent if he actually hits combat.

Troops: gaunts are bubble wrap... that's it... they run in front of the t-fexes as a screen... when numbers get low make more, place all your objective right in the middle or in your opponent's deployment zone. That's where you're going. Tervigons run behind the t-fexes flanking the thropes

Tervigon
Tervigon
30 termagants
30 termagants

Elite:

3 zoanthropes
3 zoanthropes
2 venomthropes

Heavy: The front of the brick... with a 2+ save and shrouded even Eldar will have a hard time removing them. Wave serpents don't ignore any AP and with that list he's NOT getting out of them unless he has to. s6 AP4 torrent templates are like having three helldrakes VS eldar.

Tyrannofex
Tyrannofex
Tyrannofex

1850 (since that's the level you play at)

everything moves forward as a unit... deploy like this:

xxxxxxxxtermagantsxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxtermagantsxxxxxxxxx

tyrannofex tyrannofex tyrannofex

Tervigon zoans venoms/prime zoans tervigon

deathleaper (good luck drawing LOS to him through all that!)


now you may be asking yourself, how you kill the wave serpents at range? You don't. I know what you're thinking "that's stupid!". Yeah well you're not killing the serpents before you get there. Life is sad like that, you weren't going to anyways and losing 3/4 of your army trying to kill 3 of them doesn't work. But given the right powers he's also not killing you in the two turns he needs to. When you're close enough (20") start lobbing templates, even if they do absolutely nothing. Draw attention to the big nasties up front, even for just a turn. warp lance a serpent and then template the living shit out of anything inside. Yeah it's one serpent... rinse and repeat. Two down and now you're close enough for a turn three charge no matter what... charge the serpents, template the contents, bubble wrap the objectives with a sea of gaunts... dare those jetbikes to come anywhere close to your shadows/ID template brick (if he's got 7 serpents plus contents and two farseers there can't be much else at 1850... I hope)

"But the brick is so slow!" well he isn't scooting around you to the back of the board (he might try, let him because there's no objectives there). If during objective placement he sees what you're doing so puts his there, then brick around them, make bubble wrap and call it a game of no fun for anyone.

I don't know if it would work, but it might last longer at least...just make sure you can rock those 2+ saves!

[fritzthedwarf]

Apr 19, 2014 9:26:39 GMT -5 Jack Shrapnel said:

- crone vector strikes can stop one fairly reliably (no cover and all) but if he isn't shooting your FMC's with his serpents (heck two per FMC should be easily sufficient to kill them all in one turn) you're smiling. They won't let you smile... it's right there in the dex under wave serpents pg. 23 "other player not allowed to smile or have fun"

Made me laugh. Nice one.

[danydaigle24]

I will try this when I have a chance Shannon,

this is what I tried today against his 5 weave serpent and council with baron... And guess what it was a close game I almost win! Little bit more lucy on my ground test and I would had him

flyrant
Flyrant
30 hormagaunt
30 hormagaunt
Tervigon
Tervigon
2 hive guard
Crone
Crone
Exocrine
Exocrine

im not sure about exocrine didnt do much but rest was pretty good Im sold on te flyrant and double tervigon and gaunt has troops

[Silent one]

I wouldn't mind trying the exocrine myself. On paper it looks like it has potential. I read Shannon's work up and it made me more interested. So I built a list with 2 of them in it. I would like to see how it suits my list and play style. Maybe I will try a proxy in my next game.

[danydaigle24]

let me know how it went for you Im not a fan yet.... Next list will be

flyrant
flyrant
30 gaunts
30 gaunts
Tervigon
Tervigon
Crone
Crone
Tyrranofex
Tyrranofex
2 Zoan

[danydaigle24]

Playing Tau today...

After more advice from other Nids player change my list a bit

Tfex will get AG and electroshock and one venom in case I dont start the game to protect my flyrant and crone better and jm losing both zoan....

[LizardTau]

keep the venom out of 30 inches from any vehicles with smart missiles, any tau player worth his salt will use smart missiles to take the venom out first (so they dont have to waste as many markerlights) 30 inch ignore cover and los is hard to keep away from.

with out knowing their list i dont know what other advice i can give you.

[danydaigle24]

I dont expect a lot from the venom other then soaking one treat of firepower If Im lucky and can put it out of los good for me.... I told him to bring a nasty list I want to see how I can do against Tau

[Jack Shrapnel]

keep out of 36" for first turn then kill the broadsides first. next turn assault the hell out of stuff with your flyrants, but ensure you have some gaunts to sacrifice charge (and multicharge as much as possible with them) to eat the overwatch.

First turn ensure that your venom is outside of 36" and keep it back and just inside shrouded range of the next turn... let him waste the ignore cover shots on him that turn... still keeping the frontline safe

turn three you engage. Don't be suckered into getting your MC's with the riptides. Riptides are what fearless gaunt broods are made for. Let them fight that for the rest of the game while you kill all the support. It's VERY tempting to go "riptides are super powerful, I'm gonna tyrant smack them!"... don't do it... that's a trap.  if you decimate the broadsides early and tie up the riptides with gaunts, it's pretty much game over for the Tau. 

Nids are actually quite a favourable matchup for Tau... unless your dice go south for that crucial turn two when you need things to survive one round to set up for the finisher turn three.

[danydaigle24]

Lol hahaha I should have read your post first got stuck into a riptide for 5 turns.... Didnt change a lot I got totally destroy even with starting the game having two cataclyst and being shrouded.... Suit with plasma were so nasty worse then the broadsides... i did some mistake but not critical one and still got crush with one more MC I would had enough so im thinking going down to 1 tervigon 30 gaunts and 3 warrior for troops and we spare points looking into what are my options

[danydaigle24]

Any of you tried this version of tyrant with wings miasma cannon lashwhip bonesword regen and electroshock its 55 pts more then normal flyrant but seems interesting for a warlord

[Jack Shrapnel]

electroshock is only useful vs. vehicles... one haywire hit for a template is really nothing to write home about, especially paired with a poison template (miasma cannon) or poison small blast. So if you're close enough to use the electroshock template you're using the miasma cannon's poison template which cannot hurt a vehicle anyways, so it's mixed weaponry which is making one or the other not very useful. If you're looking to do the whole double template then charge tactic for your warlord, probably either of the other thorax templates is a better option (haywire always sounds cool but then you realize you're getting likely one glance on a vehicle which if that tyrant was charging he's going to wreck anyways.

I'm not sold on lash whip/bonesword for the points... sure you might get really lucky and ID a wraithknight... but if you don't roll that 6, you're suddenly in a whole lotta trouble as you don't have an invul for the return attacks...

It could theoretically work and to be honest I've never tried this combo... but I'd likely switch to a different thorax template if you were going to try it