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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Oct 6, 2019 21:02:39 GMT -5
yeah it's getting a little crazy the more I look into it...
took about 2 hours today getting the hang of how to do a battlescribe file properly... have all the weapons inputted, warlord traits, and figured out how to input units (that was time consuming)
sigh... what have I gotten myself into
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Post by lastcranston on Oct 6, 2019 22:22:59 GMT -5
There is alot to unpack here. Some if the strategems seem kinda wonky compared to their equivalents like the 5++ invol stratagem at a 12" range seems really far. It would likely fit better at 6" for 1cp. Storm troopers being bs 3+ does seem odd just because of the context of 40k. A guardsmen and a stormtrooper are not that different and I would imagine them to have similar stat lines. The huge focus on force users seems kinda odd as well given in the empire they had exactly two of them. More stuff focusing on storm troopers being storm troopers would be solid. Vipers seem kinda useless. A strat with them to boost storm trooper shooting in some way might be neat. Last big thing jd I worry about the sheer number of different ways to reduce enemy movement in here. Force lightning as a power seems insane. For units you dont have but should probably look into, having scout troopers could be a thing or heavy weapon teams cause they exist. Dark troopers might be who you want for bs 3+ dudes
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Post by Typhus on Oct 7, 2019 0:49:25 GMT -5
I only took a quick look, but at first blush a lot of the unit profiles seem kind of... extreme. A blaster rifle shouldn't be better than a bolter. A storm trooper with a 3+ armour save and 3+ ballistic skill seems a bit much - 3+ BS should be reserved for an elite unit. Maybe the 501st or equivalent unit. A 3+ save armour save in the context of 40k means power armour. Storm trooper armour is certainly closer to carapace armour, if not lighter.
Darth Vader's stats were also kind of insane. I know we all love the guy, but to argue that he's stronger and tougher than a space marine, while wearing better armour, is patently ridiculous. I would suggest no more than S4/T4 with a 3+ save.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Oct 7, 2019 5:53:21 GMT -5
I would say that Vader is mephiston equivalent, so copied his stats. In the context of the star wars universe I also thought if anyone deserves a 2+ armor (as you see, there's extremely few) it would be Vader. For context, in every test game with the army since it's creation, Vader has been counts as Mephiston. (and zero complaints about him that way) I would go the opposite way with Vader vs. Space Marine argument and say he's infinitely better. (last 2 minutes of Rogue One Vader vs. Old man dying Return of the Jedi Vader)
I can get behind the troopers moving to 4+ BS and 4+ save. I was seeing their armor as power equivalent, but can see the argument for carapace. as for them being the same as guardsmen, they're infinitely better trained in the context of lore and don't normally live for one campaign like the intrepid guardsmen with a lasgun.
I thought a blaster should be equivalent to a shorter ranged primaris bolter, which is what I based it on... which are even BETTER in the hands of a space marine with doctrines etc. Unlike GW I kind of wanted a reason to put the iconic troops on the table, rather than just doing cheap jawa troop tax (ie: the csm book).
As to reasoning behind force users focus... there isn't really anything much else good in the fandex as is (if I follow the recommendations above even less so). Not looking top tier competitive here (it wasn't even close even using space marine stats in testing) but still want it to put up some kind of fight! lol
Just reasoning behind it, but can always adjust anything. Thanks for the feedback!
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Oct 7, 2019 6:36:12 GMT -5
stormtrooper nerf applied!
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Oct 7, 2019 9:37:16 GMT -5
re: force lightning being over the top
12" range from the psyker is the big limiter on the power... and warp charge 7 for essentially a smite that stops one unit from charging. there's a lot than can go wrong and suddenly your psyker is pretty dangerously close... thought of it like null zone really good if it works, psyker in huge trouble if it doesn't. also does nothing vs shooting which we all know is the most dangerous stuff anyways. (and if you're close enough to cast the power you're in rapid fire range, and a 4 ++ isn't exactly survivable)
re: 5++ strat - good point,, will drop it to 6" range
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Post by lastcranston on Oct 7, 2019 13:11:32 GMT -5
One big thing as well is that the hq units seem kind of sparse on generic options. Having an imperial officer of some kind might be good. Having two levels of storm trooper hq might also be solid. Something like a Sargent and a warrant officer might work. Give them buffs in the same vein as my will be done from necrons to differentiate from guard and the orders mechanic
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Oct 7, 2019 17:52:02 GMT -5
Huge update...
Added new troop units, a stormtrooper commander, an elite dark trooper unit, e-web and dewback riders to heavy and a slight improvement to the vipder droid as suggested, as well as changed the stratagem for invul to 6" range.
(gives three generic characters - a jedi, an imperial officer and a stormtrooper commander)
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Post by voodoo on Oct 9, 2019 7:04:05 GMT -5
Are there going to be Flame Troopers? And Death Troopers? Because really... you can't have a high ranking Imperial Officer without Death Troopers.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Oct 9, 2019 8:56:08 GMT -5
death troopers are in elites and the snow troopers have the flametrooper option, so I've got them in there!
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Post by voodoo on Oct 9, 2019 13:03:37 GMT -5
Vader must NEVER be worse than a Space Marine. His armor is designed to stop blaster fire! He should be more of a blend between Tiggy and Meph in my opinion; more psychic powers than Meph, but a beast in CC like Meph.
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Post by lastcranston on Oct 11, 2019 12:40:00 GMT -5
Blaster weapons having -1 ap seems kinda nuts to me. That would imply it hits harder than a standard bolt round and is on par with a primaris bolt rifle. The bolt rifle is in all likelyhood a similar size to the stormtrooper! Bolt weapons are believed to fire 40mm equivalent. The bolt rifle is believed to be high velocity 40mm grenades with an armour piercing tip and a contact fuse essentially. Saying a laser weapon that we've seen people survive a shot from seems very strange. I think strength 4 could maybe be justified but the ap seems over the top.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Oct 11, 2019 13:07:51 GMT -5
it's a weapon primaris get for free on a t3 platform with bs 4+ 6" less range and no access to doctrines which make the primaris bolt rifles even better or the host of other benefits marines get.
as a more direct comparison tempestus scions are AP -2 on their guns... and not good...
ie: a squad of 10 stormtroopers rapid firing against 5 primaris marines will on average kill a single marine, so long as they're not in cover, and not salamanders... in which case cause 1 wound
those same primaris in rapid fire range will kill 5 stormtroopers, 6 in tactical doctrine.
plus the marines have more range
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Post by LizardTau on Oct 11, 2019 14:46:18 GMT -5
It really depends on the laser weapon as las cannons are lasers.
Lasers should penetrate better then a explosive round as explosive rounds are ment to explode and a laser is ment to heat up and cut into.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong for them to be AP 1 I don't think it's over powered but saying bolt rounds should be better then lasers is ultimately wrong. As some can be stronger and some can be weaker
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Post by Typhus on Oct 11, 2019 15:16:17 GMT -5
Lasguns are also lasers. Strength 3 AP 0.
Storm Troopers should be much closer to guardsmen, scions, and fire warriors than to space marines. I don't think there's any problem with storm troopers badly losing a firefight to space marines as long as they're costed appropriately.
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