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Post by LizardTau on Oct 11, 2019 15:23:05 GMT -5
It's funny you should say sions. As they have the same stat line but better bs then the storm troopers in Shannon's codex but have a better ap and a little less range then a storm trooper.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Oct 11, 2019 15:30:29 GMT -5
hence they're scion stats with one less AP on their guns but s4
it's not that they should take on space marines and win, I'm not suggesting that at all, I was pointing out a comparison weapon from a very similar unit, and even with the AP-1 they would be pretty far from competitive even at that (as it was suggested that weapon profile was over the top)
I would see rebel troopers as the guardsmen equivalent... in the lore, stormtroopers were highly trained with top notch equipment (have been doing a ton of research in writing the codex) ... so trying to strike a balance between lore and tabletop function while actually making the unit relevant (ie not csm codex).
without some form of firepower there's literally no reason to even put this on the table... better to just counts as marines with the same models for a WAY better army
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Oct 11, 2019 17:35:01 GMT -5
It's funny you should say sions. As they have the same stat line but better bs then the storm troopers in Shannon's codex but have a better ap and a little less range then a storm trooper. Scion: 9 points T3/S3 BS3+ (WS3+ on sgt. otherwise 4+) 4+ save L7 gun: 18" S3 AP-2 D1 Stormtrooper: 10 points is what I was thinking T3/S3 BS4+ 4+ save L8 gun: 24" S4 AP-1 D1 So basically it's a Scion that has -1 BS, +1 Leadership (not an equal trade of course as BS is more valuable than leadership) It's gun has longer range and +1 strength but one less AP So if we say the +1 strength is offsetting the extra AP (which seems like an even trade) but 6" longer range is a bonus... but the BS loss is worse than the leadership buff, so they should be very similar points... however erring on the side of caution I'd add a point to the cost of the stormtroopers. Therefore they're slightly more costly than scions, for a very similar profile and the exact same survivability. Less Ballistic Skill but a slightly stronger gun, with less AP value. I'm not sure this is appropriately costed (I think both are a little high actually - which is why you probably don't see scions very much) but I think it's probably erring again on the side of caution for testing. Compare to a tac marine at 12 points - who for 2 points more gains +1 BS, +1 S, +1 T, +1 WS, +1 save - tacticals seem like a bargain!
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Post by Typhus on Oct 11, 2019 20:20:51 GMT -5
"The birth and recruitment rates on Cadia were ever synonymous, with each generation undergoing total military indoctrination. By the age of five standard years most Cadians learned to strip and reassemble a Lasgun. By six, most were deadly shots."
BS 4+. For a storm trooper, with good training from adulthood, to have a better ballistic skill than a Cadian would be insane.
Incidentally, looking at the Empire Codex you linked in the first thread - Storm Troopers are statted to be identical to Imperial Guardsmen, with an extra point of leadership and 4+ armour instead of 5+. That's exactly how I would stat them.
In that codex, a blaster rifle is statted at 24", Rapid Fire 1, S3, AP5. In 8th edition terms, that would usually be translated as AP 0. Again, this is exactly what I would recommend.
A Guardsman, at 5 or 6 points per model, with an extra point of leadership and an improved armour save.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Oct 11, 2019 21:07:06 GMT -5
the stormtroopers have BS4+... they're not better than a Cadian... they're the same.
The whole reason to update that fandex in the first place was the rules were hot garbage. Like unplayable in the edition it was (trust me I tried) and barely playable as a counts as army - which because of the changes partway through 8th of keywords couldn't be used anymore. So I was stuck with either a counts as space marine army (which is WAY more competitive, but I tired of quickly as it wasn't quite right for the models) dropping the army altogether (which sucks after that much work) or making something playable adapting the existing stuff.
But thanks for the feedback. Regardless it's not allowed in tournies anyways so it's just for friendly agreed upon matches beforehand.
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Post by LizardTau on Oct 11, 2019 21:20:12 GMT -5
i think 9 points is a good start for storm troopers, you can adjust them up or down depending on how they feel on the table.
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Post by lastcranston on Oct 14, 2019 16:43:12 GMT -5
I feel like the hq units are a bit uninspired right now have you considered a more my will be done type buff instead of a bubble? Something like giving a unit within 12" one of a number of buffs? Something like +1 bs, +1 M or +1 T?
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Oct 14, 2019 20:35:10 GMT -5
I feel like the hq units are a bit uninspired right now have you considered a more my will be done type buff instead of a bubble? Something like giving a unit within 12" one of a number of buffs? Something like +1 bs, +1 M or +1 T? hmmmm something to consider for sure... I think regardless I'm going to have to do a ton of playtesting.... thanks!
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Post by trantos01 on Oct 14, 2019 21:28:18 GMT -5
I guess the big thing is what sort of feel/theme do you want to set for the Imperial forces.
One idea for the HQ units would be they can take X number of auras (higher ranking HQs can take more and/or use more than one at a time) that they can swap depending on the circumstances. Think something like the effects of the orders that Guard officers can give but in an aura format.
Upside is that the 'orders' will always go off and they effect all forces in a given area as opposed to just one unit. Downside is that you can only take a highly limited selection of orders at the start of the game and they aren't quite as spammable as the Guard ones can be.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Oct 15, 2019 5:40:09 GMT -5
hmmmm another good idea... an order style system may help... and they're pretty guard-like for alot of units (well guard infantry anyways) so could mesh well as a way to give them a little bump...
... plus I have to basically think about them in terms of "doctrines" available as well. Imperial and First Order are my current choices... not liking how "Imperial" sounds so close to "Imperium" but that's what they were referred to lore wise...
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Post by lastcranston on Oct 15, 2019 6:00:08 GMT -5
You could always use galactic empire instead of imperial.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Oct 15, 2019 10:01:03 GMT -5
You could always use galactic empire instead of imperial. yeah but that's the name of the codex/army... I guess tau do it though...
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Oct 17, 2019 9:36:02 GMT -5
adding some first order HQ: kylo ren, supreme leader snoke, captain phasma and Armitage hux (so a first order army can be built with the relevant special characters) as I'm so close to finishing the codex (I'm 62 pages in currently) I'll just add them to the codex rather than making new hq summary cards at this point.
on the home stretch!
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Oct 17, 2019 20:41:03 GMT -5
picked up some star wars legion models tonight... scale works out perfect and the models are MUCH better than the imperial assault ones / dreamforge mins I used previously...
...so yeah... total rebuild... cuz I'm smart like that...lol
big dilemma though... basing...
speeders want to be in the forest... snow troopers want to be on snow... dewbacks on desert...
want to have coherent basing of course... but what to pick? (Dewback in the snow makes no sense)
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Post by ohgodsnakes on Oct 17, 2019 21:25:43 GMT -5
Snowy forest?
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