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Post by StepwisePilot on Feb 3, 2020 22:35:45 GMT -5
So, I realizes that I've never posted my Ironjawz list. It's at 1500 right now, but I'll make this list for 2000, since that is the goal.
Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Ghur
Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Trait: Brutish Cunning
- Artefact: Daubing of Mork
- Mount Trait: Mean 'Un
Orruk Megaboss (150)
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
Battalions
Ironfist (160)
Total: 2000 / 2000
So, the general idea is to rush up and punch things as soon as possible. I picked for them to be from Ghur as there is an artifact from there which I wanted. All I need left to be at 2000 points is 1 Warchanter, and 1 squad of Gore-Gruntas. So, lets go through this.
General is my megaboss on maw-krusha. His trait allows him him to use the mighty destroyers command ability once per turn without spending a command point. His artifact gives him a 6+ extra save on both wounds and mortal wounds. His Mean 'Un mount trait adds 1 to the damage dealt by the maw-krushas fists.
Then we have a megaboss on foot. I gave him the realm specific artifact. It gives him 1 extra move, and units attacking him suffer -1 to hit. The extra move helps a bit, as this is a slow moving army, and the penalty to opponents is a plus as well.
Then comes two warchanters. They have get em beat, which on a 4+ allows a unit to charge from up to 18" away, with 3d6. Also, by default they have an ability that gives a nearby squad +1 to all damage they do, no rolls required to pull that off.
Now we have the various battlelines and units.
I have three squads of 5 brutes each. 1 model in each squad has a Gore Choppa. Then come the Gore Gruntas. one squad is armed with choppas, as the choppas used to be the better option before the new battletome. The second, which I don't have yet, will be built with Gore-hackas, as that gives a bonus on the charge. Then there is three units of 5 ardboyz each. I considered having just one blob of 15, but I figured I could spread out better this way.
I then have the Ironfist battalion. For this, I pick 1 of my brutes. The squad leader gains two extra wounds, and as long as he lives, can use the mighty destroyers command ability as if he was a megaboss for free once per turn.
Ok, so if anyone would have any insight as to how this could be made better, I'd gladly hear it. Would it be better for me to blob up my squads to be huge murder balls, or smaller squads for more board control?
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Feb 4, 2020 13:12:45 GMT -5
Greetings, fellow Orruk player!
I think it's a solid list overall. Some thoughts:
Leaders -On a Maw-krusha, I think The Destroyer is better than Daubing of Mork. Maw-krushas are ludicrously destructive and I think it's ideal to lean into this - after all, offense is the best defense!
-The Footboss will probably live longer than the Maw-krusha since the latter has the means to really get in the enemy's face basically from turn 1. Thus, I think the Footboss makes a superior general and carrier for Brutish Cunning, which will have an easier time applying to most of your dudes given he'll be walking along behind them.
-Speaking of the Footboss, I actually like the Ethereal Amulet better for defense and the Thermalrider Cloak for offense. The Glyph-feather Charm ain't bad though.
-Warbeats. "Each warbeat can only be attempted once per turn, regardless of how many WARCHANTERS know it." Since you have the Ironfist you do get two, and they can be the same, but you can't use Get 'Em Beat twice so you might as well grab one of the other ones. I recommend Fixin' Beat to keep the Maw-krusha alive a little longer.
Troopies -Generally speaking, I think you will be better off consolidating your units. You have enough stuff that you can meet your battleline and Ironfist requirements even if you blob up, and critically almost all Warclans synergies strongly encourage medium-large units versus MSUs. Brutes I can see running in fives because of their poor bravery, but the Ardboys in a squad of 15 and the Goregruntas in a squad of 6 make them EXTREMELY efficient targets for the Warchanter buff. It also means that they get to be elected to fight at once, and you will therefore be less likely to suffer casualties before you activate a unit to fight. Board control isn't really our thing (too slow, not enough models). Instead, we wanna get in dere and smash n bash the enemy to pieces with a maximum concentration of force. This also would let you shove a Glyph dude in the Ardboys for a lil' extra damage here and there. I would avoid bunching up the Brutes if they don't have Gore-hackas though, their bases are too phat. And speaking of Smashin' and Bashin' you are more likely to pull a proper domino if your units are big and thus hit harder when activated.
-Weapon choice isn't a big deal on Goregruntas, but optimally the pick most people go with now is the pig-iron choppas since it synergizes with buffs better (Especially in Big Waaagh). Without buffs though the difference is negligible.
Other stuff -I would consider trying Ironsunz if you haven't already to see if you like them. Tax trait/artefact are whatever but the -1 to hit you round 1 works great with the Maw-krusha, and the CA has the potential to flip a game if used well. You lose Brutish Cunning but tbh you don't need it that badly if you aren't Big Waaagh since you can just pay CP for any extra MDs you need.
-If you want some spellcasting support, the Weirdnob isn't bad. The Ironjawz spell lore isn't as good as the Bonesplitterz, but you can take Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork which lets you teleport a hammer unit into ideal position for a charge into your opponent's guts (Get 'Em Beat on Ardboys is basically a guaranteed success). The threat of it alone is enough to force your opponent to deploy additional screens - nice! And having an unbind is always useful.
I love Ironjawz for how simple they are. Not the biggest unit range but it does the job through sheer uncomplicated brutality. I think as a general rule it's pretty much impossible to screw up when list-building for them, but the above is my advice for tuning yours a bit.
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Post by StepwisePilot on Feb 4, 2020 13:27:58 GMT -5
You know, now that I think of it, my Megaboss on foot has lasted longer than my Maw-Krusha in each game with both of them. I'll definitely make him the general if it helps, and it does make sense too now that I think of it. And I'll look into the artifacts you mentioned. Also, I guess I misread about the warbeats, hahaha. I was thinking of fixin' beat to keep the maw-krusha healthy, and now I guess I will take it, seeing as how I can't use get 'em beat twice a turn, hahaha. I need to pay more attention when I read the rules it seems. As for the troops, I'll ball my Ardboz up into a 15 model squad, and when I get new Gore Gruntas, I'll build them with the axe rather than the gore hacka, that way they can combine with my others and make a squad of 6. I makes sense what you said about board control, so focusing on killing is the best bet. I may keep the Brutes in squads of 5 for now, but will see how things go. I've heard the term MSU before. May I ask what it means? Anyway, I want to thank you for your advice.
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Post by Impulse on Feb 4, 2020 14:06:27 GMT -5
To be fair, I think both those games were against me (and bonesplitterz are premier monster hunters)
I think giving the mawcrusha a try against other armies might do you some good. daubing of Mork didn't apply in those games too. As well msu is multiple small units afaik, I've also heard the term GEQ and MEQ thrown around for 40k, and that's guardsman equivalent unit and marine equivalent unit.
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Feb 4, 2020 14:15:48 GMT -5
Yes, MSU = Multiple Small Units. Comes from 40k since for most of that game's life Space Marine squads have been 10 dudes as per fluff, but it's almost always better to take them in 5s. MSU reigning is also, incidentally, where kill-point style scoring came from!
@stepwisepilot for reference I'm not advocating buying more Gore-gruntas. That's expensive as heck if you don't want a whole start collecting box to go with it!
Nobody is going to complain if your squad of 6 has mixed weapons as long as you tell your opponent (let's be real, most people can't tell our equipment apart anyway). If you're a WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get) purist you can always rip the arms off one squad to give them the same weapons as the other. Hell, if you need weapons I can provide 'em, I go out of my way to model stuff how I like it to look, consequences and tournament legality be damned!
Definitely keep the Brutes in 5s. The biggest squad I've ever seen in a comp list is 10 (with hackas), and that sparked a pages long argument on TGA about how good/bad Brutes were, so... you know. Do as you please.
Also, the Warchanter thing is easy to miss. Spells have the "Rule of One" from the core rules, but they forgot that didn't apply to prayers, so they started shoving it into the prayer tables themselves. It's a classic GW kludge for a problem they themselves created.
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Post by StepwisePilot on Feb 4, 2020 15:14:30 GMT -5
Impulse (Was your name Matt? Can't remember properly): That's true. I want to make it clear though that I still had fun in my games with you though. Still, I think it does make sense to make the megaboss on foot the general, as then he is closer to the troops for purposes on command abilities, as I want to rush the maw-krusha forward to smash things. @derek: Well, I want more gore-gruntas anyway, as well as a warchanter. I' was planning on just buying a start collecting for them, as even without the ardboyz it is still cheaper than buying the warchanter and pig riders separate, hahaha. Also, I know most people don't care about WYSIWYG, but I may go with the axes anyway, just because I think they look cooler (Rule of cool is important to me). If I ever decide against that, I can just tell anyone I play with to pretend they are the gore-hackas.
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Feb 4, 2020 15:26:10 GMT -5
Ah fair 'nuff! Honestly Ardboys are so freakin' good now I don't know if you can have too many (get enough and you can even run the Ardfist, memey as it is!).
I bought two Start Collecting boxes plus I already had 20 Black Orcs from my WHFB days, and I'm pretty confident I could run 40 Ardboys and not be disappointed.
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Post by StepwisePilot on Feb 14, 2020 14:24:26 GMT -5
Ok, so I took some advice and such, and here is an updated list.
Allegiance: Ironjawz Mortal Realm: Ghyran
Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (150) - General - Command Trait: Brutish Cunning
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460) - Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa - Artefact: Ghyrstrike - Mount Trait: Mean 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (110) - Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110) - Artefact: Shamanic Skullcape - Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Battleline
5 x Orruk Brutes (140) - Pair of Brute Choppas - 1x Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140) - Pair of Brute Choppas - 1x Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140) - Pair of Brute Choppas - 1x Gore Choppas
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320) - Pig-iron Choppas
15 x Orruk Ardboys (270) - 3x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
Battalions
Ironfist (160)
Total: 2000 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 1 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 139
So, the reason behind making Ghyran the realm is because of the artifact my Maw-Krusha has. I pick one weapon he has equipped, and it gets +1 to hit and wound. For this, I picked his main weapon, which would then make 8 attacks that hit and wound on 2+. If I don't go with that, then my choice would be to run them from Shyish, and give him an ethereal amulet, which makes him no longer effected by rend, but can't get bonuses either. Just like a nighthaunt.
I replaced 1 Warchanter with a Shaman (I've ordered the Shaman, but don't have it yet). I give the shaman an artifact that gives him +1 to casting rolls, and for his spell pick "Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork", which has a casting value of 7.
Also, the Ardboyz and Gore-Gruntas get consolidated into larger squads.
The idea here is that on my first turn in the hero phase, I use the Warchanter to give the Ardboys a +1 damage buff, then cast Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork on them. It's effect it to pick a friendly Ironjawz unit wholly within 24", and teleport it anywhere on the map that is at least 9" away from an enemy. They can't move that turn, but can still charge.
Now, the Ardboyz unit has a drummer, so they add +2 to their charge rolls. Also, all Ironjawz units add +1 to charge rolls. So, with the total of +3 the charge, I'd only need to get a 6 to charge the Ardboyz in first turn. On other turns I would also try to teleport things around for easier charge, since Ironjawz move so slow.
Well, that's my list for now.
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Feb 16, 2020 13:02:26 GMT -5
My thoughts:
Ghyrstrike isn't a bad artefact by any stretch of the imagination, but I can't imagine ever taking it on a Maw Krusha unless I'd already used The Destroyer on another Maw Krusha. Like for perspective Ghyrstrike is a cumulative damage increase of 14% per combat round on one weapon. The Destroyer is a damage increase of 150% for one combat round on the same weapon. Ghyrstrike is a passive benefit that lasts longer but on a hammer unit, I'd much rather utterly obliterate one problem enemy than bank on getting value over time. Anytime you're hitting anything that isn't important you'll probably overkill it anyway.
If using a Shaman I would probably look to rejigger it so that he replaces the extra Megaboss. Warchanters are... I mean they're just the best. They're so good. I'd take zero Megabosses before I dropped to less than two Warchanters. Unfortunately not a straight swap but you're losing a lot of damage in 2,000 points with just one Warchanter, and your opponent will have an easy time sniping it.
Otherwise looks pretty good!
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Post by StepwisePilot on Feb 16, 2020 17:08:18 GMT -5
Hmmmm... Thanks for the input. I have a shaman coming in. When I can, I'll see if I can get a second.
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Feb 16, 2020 19:25:52 GMT -5
Hmmmm... Thanks for the input. I have a shaman coming in. When I can, I'll see if I can get a second. Whoa whoa whoa! Don't get two weirdnob shamans! You don't want more than one lol
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Post by StepwisePilot on Feb 16, 2020 23:36:51 GMT -5
Ah, my mistake. I misread, hahaha, I actually already have two warchanters.
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Feb 17, 2020 16:28:34 GMT -5
Ah, my mistake. I misread, hahaha, I actually already have two warchanters. I know that's what I was getting at - you should pretty much always use two Warchanters in any list, regardless of whatever else you use. Warchanters make Ironjawz tick.
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Post by StepwisePilot on Feb 18, 2020 11:33:40 GMT -5
Good to know, thanks.
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