A cities of Sigmar list

[StepwisePilot]

Alright, so I'm pretty sure that my second army will be Cities of Sigmar. I even started trying to make lists for it. Here is a very stupid list I came up with that has almost no melee, only ranged. Go ahead and laugh at how bad it is or something. I think it could be cool to play, in a HOLD THE LINE sort of way, hahaha.


Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar

- City: Greywater Fastness

Mortal Realm: Ghyran


Leaders

Freeguild General (100)
- General
- Trait: Drillmaster

Warden King (110)
- Artefact: Steam-piston Plate Mail

Cogsmith (60)
- Artefact: Mastro Vivetti's Maginificent Macroscope

Runelord (90)


Battleline

20 x Freeguild Handgunners (200)
20 x Freeguild Handgunners (200)
10 x Ironbreakers (130)
10 x Ironbreakers (130)


Units

5 x Freeguild Outriders (100)
5 x Freeguild Outriders (100)
5 x Freeguild Outriders (100)

(Outriders may be replaced with pistoliers, see below)


War Machines

Helstorm Rocket Battery (130)
Helstorm Rocket Battery (130)
Helstorm Rocket Battery (130)
Helstorm Rocket Battery (130)


Battalions

Greywater Artillery Company (120)

Total: 1960 / 2000

Ok, so the battalion allows all artillery to fire twice on the first turn. Since each rocket battery has 3 attacks, I guess that makes for 6 each? Anyway, they normally have a range of 36" (Minimum range of 10"), but it expands to 39" due to being from Greywater Fastness. They would all be by the cogsmith, as he can heal them.

Ok, so with the battalion out of the way, lets move onto the actual units. 


Heroes

The general, just a plain old Freeguild General, has drillmaster, which allows ranged units wholly withing 12" to reroll hit rolls of 1. He also has a command ability to allow units that haven't moved or charged wholly within 18" of himself to gain +1 to hit and wound. The general idea is to keep him close to the handgunners. 

The Warden King will follow the Ironbreakers around to buff them.

Cogsmith sits by the artillery and repairs them, and allows them to reroll hits of 1. 

The Runelord will also follow the Ironbreakers around, to buff them, and to unbind magic. He gets +2 to unbindign and dispellign rolls.


Battleline

2 squads of 20 handgunners each. They get to add 1 to their hit rolls as long as they have at least 10 models, have not moved that turn, and are farther than 3" from an enemy. Also, once per turn when an enemy changes them and succeeds, they may open fire on said enemy. The backbone of this list.

Ironbreakers for some melee, and to block guys from reaching my gunline.

The Outriders/Pistoliers are where I'm not quite sure what to pick. On the one hand, Outriders are less accurate, but can run/retreat and shoot in the same turn, as well as having a higher volume of attacks. The pistoliers have shorter range, but can reroll run and charge rolls, and after they make a charge they can shoot again into the thing they just charged. Both units have the same point value, but I'm not sure if I should go with outriders to pepper the enemy while running around, or pistoliers to charge them.

Other than that, there isn't much to say. I think the list seems interesting. It's most likely sucks, but at least I'd have fun while losing, hahaha. 

[StepwisePilot]

Ok, so I just learned of something. Since Cities of Sigmar can take Stormcast units, I might take a Lord-Ordinator instead of a warden king. This bumps me up to exactly 2000 points. The reason for him is that he gives all ORDER war machines a +1 to hit, as long as they are wholly within 9" of him. This makes the artillery go from hitting on 5+ to hittign on 4+.

[Hi I'm Derek]

Personally I think it's great. Very close to a list I'd build for GWF. I 100% agree that the Lord Ordinator is the pick for the artillery pit, and the Warden King makes a great straight swap since you probably don't have enough dorfs to make him worthwhile anyway. If you don't want to have a huge gold stormcast bro ruining your army asthetic you can always proxy something - a Warden King with a scenic base on a 40mm would do the trick!

Outriders are dope and synergize well with the Freeguild general. It might be worth blobbing up the gunners so you can tag more outriders with the general's CA, but it's not a big deal - they'll be more resilient split.

One thing to consider is using a version of the list with a Celestial Hurricanum. Thing's crazy powerful and especially amps up gunners and artillery to new heights, while also providing a bit of spellcasting support.

I don't think this list is bad at all. Has some serious alpha-striking potential. The only thing it'll struggle with is objective capping since so much of your army is an immobile blob, but this is true of most gunlines!

[StepwisePilot]

The celestial hurricanum is one of those big carriage things, right? I'll certainly look into it.

I'll be honest, I was not expecting any positive feedback to this list, so the fact that it may actually be somewhat decent is a plus, hahaha.

[lastcranston]

So why the cavalry instead of more hangunners? Other big thing is why the dorf screen if you want units to be charging your hand gunners? Other big question I guess being if you've looked into hellblaster volley guns? They're kind of meme worthy since they will jam some of the time but the odds of them jamming is lower than it seems. It's a great big fuelband if it jams turn one but if it doesnt the output is ridiculous.

[Hi I'm Derek]

Those are some good points.

I agree that you could probably cut the dwarves for more handgunners but I'd make the front screens minimum size in that case to stretch out their lifespan. I wouldn't want to replace the cav with just more Handgunners, bunker lists constantly lose on objectives so if you wanted to replace the Outriders with something better I'd vote for Gyrocopters, Scourgerunner Chariots or, at a minimum, a unit of Shadow Warriors.

I will say, if leaning heavily enough into Handgunners/Crossbowmen you will definitely want a Celestial Hurricanum.

There's a big thread on TGA where people did the math on Rocket Batteries versus Volleyguns and Volleyguns are better, but probably not by so much that it makes a huge difference which one you take. I would probably build the one that I found more visually attractive (but if I was proxying, which I would be because I much prefer normal cannons, I would take the Volleygun).

[StepwisePilot]

Well, I had the rockets instead of the volley gun because of the battalion offering extra turn 1 shooting, and they have longer range. I figured the longer range would help, although to be honest, I'm not certain I'd still even take the battalion, as it's only good for the first turn. As such, the volley gun would probably do well and I drop the battalion.

As for the cavalry, it's to quickly run around and shoot at things that are out of range of my handgunners, and also they look cool, hahaha. I do agree with the dwarfs though, they likely have to be replaced. I'm just not sure what to replace them with.

Also, after looking into the hurricanum, it is definitely something to add to the list.

I'll play around with the warscroll build and the pdf I have, and then try to post an updated list. I do know however that if I do end up getting a Cities of Sigmar army, I want it to be ranged heavy.

[StepwisePilot]

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Greywater Fastness
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Leaders

Lord-Ordinator (140)
- General
- Command Trait: Drillmaster
- Artefact: Steam-piston Plate Mail

Freeguild General (100)
- City Role: General's Adjutant

Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280)
- Lore of Smog: Descending Ash Cloud


Battleline

20 x Freeguild Handgunners (200)
- City Role: Honoured Retinue (Must be 5-20 models)

20 x Freeguild Handgunners (200)

20 x Freeguild Handgunners (200)


Units

10 x Freeguild Outriders (200)

10 x Freeguild Outriders (200)

Helblaster Volley Gun (120)

Helblaster Volley Gun (120)

Helblaster Volley Gun (120)

Helblaster Volley Gun (120)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 149

[StepwisePilot]

Ok, so for this updated list, I have the stormcast guy for the +1 to hit with warmachines. I removed all dwarfs. I figure I don't need the cogsmith too much, as the general idea is to keep people away from the artillery, so I shouldn't have to worry about fixing them. I also removed the runelord, as her was only there to unbind spells, and the hurricanum can do that just fine, as I picked the wizard option. Then again, the runelord does have a prayer that on a 2+ adds 1 to the hit rolls for one warmachine. Hmmm...

I added 20 more handgunners, 5 more outriders (And moved the outriders into 2 groups of 10), and swapped the middle batteries to the volley guns. There is no battalion this time, as each city only has access to one battalion, and the turn 1 only effect just wasn't cutting it.

It is still greywater fastness, as that adds 3" to the range of all warmachines.

So, that's updated now. Any thoughts?

[Hi I'm Derek]

So my take: Greywater Fastness is really only good for the battalion. Tempest's Eye is just better if you take no battalion because they have a command trait that gives +1 to wound with missile weapons, which is strictly better than re-roll 1s. Tempest's Eye has better battle traits in general since you're already easily hitting 2+/2+ on your Volleyguns. I don't think the 3" range is particularly worthwhile on its own.

Also, I:
-Don't like 10 man units of Outriders. Too much invested in a single unit for what it can do. Minimum size is better, or maybe do Pistoliers instead.
-If you take 60 Handgunners in Greywater Fastness you should take at least one max-size unit of 30 to target with the Greywater CA. I maintain that screening units should nearly always be minimum size unless they are being targeted for buffs or you are getting a massive regiment discount.
-Handgunners actually have a pretty crappy range of 16", so a lot of gunline armies will use Handgunners as screens, but will make their big rear-line blob out of Crossbowmen just because they'll actually be able to shoot most turns, especially if the enemy doesn't run straight for you. Handgunners have better damage output but missing even a single turn of shooting guts those numbers.

[StepwisePilot]

Well, never let it be said that I know what I'm doing when it comes to making a list, hahaha.

Maybe I should just go with ogres as the second army. Less units choices may make it easier to make something. I also made an example list for them. May post it later.

[Hi I'm Derek]

Cities are a great list primarily because there are so many options, but if simplicity is your preference then Ogors might be the one - they have a good breadth of options as well but no army can approach Cities for diversity.

And remember that any advice people give you about list building is just optimization. You aren't required to follow it to the letter, and you may even disagree with the conclusions.

[StepwisePilot]

I know it's more a suggestion. I'll be honest though, with cities, I sort of feel like I have too many options, that it becomes harder than normal to make a list. I make one list, then I see a different unit that looks cool, and decide I need that in the list, so I remake it completely. Hell, the first version of the list at the start of this thread is something like the 8th list I made for Cities of Sigmar, hahaha. Also, I feel like I have choice paralysis, where it's hard to pick one thing over the other for my list. I like Ironjawz as they have fewer options. I know some people hate fewer options, but for me it sort of helps.

So... yeah. Thanks for the help everyone, but I'll probably go with Ogor Mawtribes. I hope nobody feels like I wasted their time with this.

[Hi I'm Derek]

I love theorycrafting and I wish more people did it on this forum!

I just don't want to drive you away from a great army because of, essentially, nitpicking.

[StepwisePilot]

Hey, no problem. You didn't drive me away from it, so don't worry. I had started having misgivings since day 1 in a sense, due to option paralysis and all, and now that the new Ogre Tyrant is getting a solo release, it sort of gave me another push towards ogres.

Thanks for the help though. If i ever return to Cities of Sigmar, I'll keep in mind the things you said.