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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jul 14, 2020 18:58:15 GMT -5
So looking at making 9th edition lists out of 8th edition concepts... so this thread will be a mix of a bunch of armies, some lists concepts I had from 8th and how they translate to 9th and the reasoning behind it.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jul 14, 2020 19:38:03 GMT -5
Next up is the Valorous Heart sisters
Battalion: Valorous Heart - ignore AP-1, or AP-2 with a imagifier nearby - everything gets a 6+ shrug
3x relics (-3 CP) heroine in the making (-1 CP)
Inquisitor Greyfax Repentia Superior - bolt pistol - wrath of the emperor
Canoness - plasma pistol, power sword, rod of office - book of St. Lucius - indomitable belief warlord (+1 invul bubble) Canoness - plasma pistol, power sword, rod of office, - Litanies of faith / beacon of faith (+1 miracle dice / reroll ) Canoness - blessed blade, inferno pistol, iron surplus (can only be wounded on a 4+, 2+ armor save)
10 battle sisters with 2 storm bolters, sgt. has condemnor boltgun 10 battle sisters with 2 storm bolters, sgt. has condemnor boltgun 10 battle sisters with 2 storm bolters, sgt. has condemnor boltgun
6 arco flagellants with endurant Imagifier - tale of the stoic Imagifier - tale of the stoic 8 sisters repentia
5 seraphim - champ has plasma pistol/power sword, 2x inferno pistols 5 seraphim - champ has plasma pistol/power sword, 2x inferno pistols
Exorcist - exorcist missile launcher, heavy bolter Exorcist - exorcist missile launcher, heavy bolter 4 Penitent Engines - 2x heavy flamer, 2x buzz-blades
Immolator - immolation flamer, heavy bolter Rhino - storm bolter, hunter killer missile
TOTALS:
8th edition: Points= 1778, CP = 4 after expenditures
9th edition: Points = 1996, CP = 8 after expenditures
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Thoughts... Well GW basically got me to not buy a third exorcist with the point changes... so win? The list itself seems kind of lean but I'm literally 3 tanks away from owning everything (1 exorcist, rhino, immolator) so it's a bit cheaper finish to an army I thought was going to hit GSC levels of expense. It's fairly survivable with valorous heart, and invul buff around the warlord and bigger units of sisters. Have some close combat with the engines, the repentia, and arcos, although the two latter are pretty glass hammers. bit of drop melta with the seraphim, so I think I've got the basics covered. I was actually fairly surprised that the sisters lost more points than the daemon list. Guess Goonhammer's "moderate win" wasn't so accurate on these ones, lol. Biggest hits were the tanks as expected, although everything went up a bit, which adds up.
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Post by LizardTau on Jul 14, 2020 20:04:55 GMT -5
the exorcists being able to move and shoot mean you can either hide them more and then move and shoot or they can be more mobile for objectives or getting lines of fire
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jul 14, 2020 20:06:19 GMT -5
I was doing a rebuild of my nurgle daemons... so this is what I'm looking at for 9th (remember some of these choices are model related, such as the inclusion of Mr. Snail and his frog buddies, I realize mono-nurgle is not very competitive) Batallion:exalted GUO -1 CP, extra relic -1 CP Exalted great unclean one - warlord (endless gift - regain 1 wound / phase if lost a wound that phase) doomsday bell and bileblade, revoltingly resilient (4+ FNP) Daemon prince of nurgle - sword (corruption) Hortiulus Slimux 4 nurglings 4 nurglings 29 plaguebearers with icon (I was literally ONE point over if I brought 30) 4x beasts of nurgle 4x beasts of nurgle 6 plague drones - icon/instrument Soul grinder of nurgle - warpsword PatrolPoxbringer Spoilpox Scrivener 4 nurglings TOTALS:8th edition: Points= 1845, CP = 7 after expenditures 9th edition: Points = 1996, CP = 8 after expenditures-------------- Thoughts... Well I wanted more models... as the original idea was another horde of plaguebearers in there rather than the soulgrinder and 2 battalions, but that doesn't work as well in 9th, and plagues cannot be double buffed now... so the idea behind this list is it just doesn't die very easily. So secondaries are based around things like "while we stand we fight" and the nurglings are pretty good at the shadow operations stuff as they can't do a whole lot, and perhaps engage on on fronts or domination as I have a lot of pretty durable units to hold objectives. Everything is a pain to kill other than nurglings, and the GUO is bringing back a slain multiwound model to nearby drones and beasts every turn with the bell. It's a grind style list and is probably not going to kill a ton of enemy models, but this is 9th and you can score a lot of points without even having to kill the enemy
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Post by Typhus on Jul 15, 2020 1:42:07 GMT -5
The nurglings are pretty good at the shadow operations stuff as they can't do a whole lot Unfortunately, Shadow Operations is for INFANTRY only. SWARMS need not apply :/
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jul 15, 2020 6:10:29 GMT -5
The nurglings are pretty good at the shadow operations stuff as they can't do a whole lot Unfortunately, Shadow Operations is for INFANTRY only. SWARMS need not apply :/ Ah good catch... well they can.... ummm... engage on all fronts and grab primaries? I guess lol
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jul 15, 2020 10:02:29 GMT -5
Tyranids... my poor tyranids... well at least they're not GSC...
So here is a Kraken style list that aims to hit as fast as possible... the ability for things to fall back and charge still exists, and swarmlord is much easier to hide for a turn due to the obscuring terrain rules... plus I own all the models.
why a lictor you ask? I had a few points left over with nothing productive to do with them. Plus he's fairly easy to hide, and grab objectives / complete secondaries.
Battalion:
Hive Tyrant: Warlord, Chameleonic mutation (-1 to hit by ranged weapons), monstrous rending claws, 2x devourers, wings, adrenal glands (+1 to advance/charge) adaptive physiology - accelerated digestion - killing models in combat heals wounds
The Swarmlord
Broodlord
20 genestealers 20 genestealers 3 ripper swarms
5 hive guard with impaler cannons Lictor
Patrol:
Hive tyrant - wings, 2x devourers, monstrous rending claws, adrenal glands Hive tyrant - wings, 2x devourers, monstrous rending claws, adrenal glands
3 ripper swarms
TOTALS:
8th edition: Points= 1787, CP = 9 after expenditures
9th edition: Points = 1999, CP = 10 after expenditures
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Thoughts... well it's fast... and it will get me used to playing with the new terrain rules as it will be vital to keeping the tyrants alive (and given they're half the list in points - they have to live!) as well as the genestealers. Secondaries that look interesting are thin their ranks, attrition, engage on all fronts, and perhaps domination. I will have to take either a purge the enemy secondary or a mission specific one. Wasting the turn of the hive tyrants to do any warpcraft actions, or making the stealers stand still or the hive guard not shoot for shadow operations (as rippers are swarms and cannot do it) seems like a terrible idea. However as I think about it right now... a Lictor could have a chance at repairing teleport homer... if they're hidden really well... like really well, as they're not exactly hard to kill.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jul 15, 2020 10:46:49 GMT -5
Okay Tyranids... lets see if Jormungandr is doable with the new edition (my one test game = NOT but hey it was one game)
Batallion:
progeny of the hive -1 CP
Hive Tyrant - Heavy venom cannon, monstrous rending claws, adrenal glands, toxin sacs - Pathogenesis (+8" range to gun and can reroll one hit/wound everytime shoot or overwatch)
Neurothrope - warlord
Neurothrope
3 ripper swarms 3 ripper swarms 9 warriors with boneswords - 6 deathspitters and 3 venom cannons - dynamic camouflage (2+ save vs. ranged due to cover)
6 hive guard with impaler cannons 5 hive guard with impaler cannons Maleceptor
Trygon - adrenal glands, toxinspike, adaptive physiology - murderous size +1 strength and damage and AP tyrannofex - acid spray, stinger salvo Tyrannofex - acid spray, stinger salvo
TOTALS:
8th edition: Points= 1797, CP = 7 after expenditures
9th edition: Points = 1999, CP = 11 after expenditures
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Thoughts... well... it has a big brick (hive tyrant, maleceptor and tfexes) that is going to walk slowly up the board eating shots. The Maleceptor strat should hopefully help out a little bit. the warriors are going to dig up with the trygon and lend some shooting and backfield synapse and they're somewhat hard to dig out. the hive guard do what they do (ie: carry the list). there's a fair amount of shooting, but nothing that can really threaten knights. A lot of synapse means that at least it's one thing I don't have to worry about (unlike the bring it down secondary objective which will have a field day vs. me!).
Secondaries I'm leaning towards are engage on all fronts, attrition (as theoretically my stuff is survivable), Linebreaker, engage on all fronts, and probably the neurothrope accompanying the brick can do the psychic ritual given after he pops lurking maws, he's not really going to do a whole lot other than an occasional smite.
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Jul 15, 2020 12:09:13 GMT -5
There's Large. There's Titanic. But then there's Murderous Size. Be sure to upgrade your combo today! McTrygons. Ba-da-ba-ba-ba, I'm lovin' it.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jul 15, 2020 13:29:58 GMT -5
lol... nicely done
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Jul 15, 2020 14:41:02 GMT -5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPQsE6g6ijwI let this play in the background the last few hours, I have to say, despite the mistakes Matt made with the GSC, he was able to pull in close. It's very likely with avoiding the one forgotten strat misplay, and multi-charging with his Abberrants he likely would have won. I hate to give my favourite GSC player false hope, but I feel like it might be the ticket you need right now... =)
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jul 16, 2020 20:03:17 GMT -5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPQsE6g6ijwI let this play in the background the last few hours, I have to say, despite the mistakes Matt made with the GSC, he was able to pull in close. It's very likely with avoiding the one forgotten strat misplay, and multi-charging with his Abberrants he likely would have won. I hate to give my favourite GSC player false hope, but I feel like it might be the ticket you need right now... =) lies... all lies... he got wrecked! but was a fun report to watch
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jul 19, 2020 14:40:21 GMT -5
Alright, so tested out the exalted daemons list on Saturday and learned a few things... that are making me adjust the list (I deleted the one I used above as it didn't work as intended). Khorne is just... well... pretty meh in 9th. Not adding any shooting or psychic and not being THAT killy or survivable makes it pretty rough to consider including them at this increased point cost.
So am going to be looking at my daemons in a number of different ways (as a thought exercise in many ways but also I have the model selection to actually get fairly creative about it) after doing some thinking, as well as some discussion with Justin after our game about what worked and what just simply didn't.
so here goes with the first version of undivided exalted:
Battalion (0 CP)
Lord of Change - exalted lord of change (-1 CP) - if I don't roll for it (ie: vs. a psyker heavy army) will take aura of mutability - the 6+ shrug that heals him. Baleful sword, Impossible robe (3++) warlord with Incorporeal form (-1 damage)
Poxbringer - virulent blessing
Sloppity bilepiper
5 nurglings 5 nurglings 30 plaguebearers with icon and instrument
Patrol: Slaanesh (-2 CP)
Exalted Keeper of secrets (-1 CP) - random gifts, Aegis (6+ shrug) Exalted Keeper of secrets (-1 CP) - random gifts, Aegis (6+ shrug)
10 daemonettes
Patrol: Slaanesh (-2 CP)
Shalaxi Helbane - Aegis Exalted Keeper of secrets (-1 CP) - random gifts, sinistrous hand
TOTALS:
8th edition: Points= 1830, CP = 6 after expenditures
9th edition: Points = 1990, CP = 4 after expenditures
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Thoughts:
The nurglings actually performed well, but just weren't big enough to have staying power once they could be targeted. 5 instead of 6 is due to points, but also because of blast weapons getting their bonus vs. them.
daemonettes are tax, but when hiding can just sit on an objective cheaply, allowing the plaguebearers to be more midfield with the nurglings. reason that sloppity is there is because for very cheaply he allows those plaguebearers to roll two dice for morale and take the lowest, increasing their odds of rolling that great 1. The poxbringer gives virulent blessing for +1 to wound and double damage on 7+, as well as the native +1 to strength. Their numbers are already giving them a -1 to be hit due to cloud of flies.
The four keepers push forward hard and frankly they're faster and deadlier than bloodthirsters for less points, as well as being more survivable (due to the aegis and -1 to be hit auras) as well.
The warlord LOC is just insanely survivable (moreso than an exalted GUO actually AND can hide behind obscuring terrain).
I'm still basically auto-giving my opponent abhor the witch so long as they don't bring psykers (as all the keepers WILL die by turn three) but I'm playing daemons and unless I play mono-khorne (which has it's own host of terrible problems) that is going to be a give anyways.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jul 20, 2020 11:44:43 GMT -5
well, time for drukhari I guess... they got hit pretty hard by the point changes as you can see by the point totals at the bottom, but it keeps what I feel is essential in the concept of the list I initially had... I'm really glad I didn't buy more talos kits originally though, that would have been a bit of a bitter pill to drop them.
Battalion: prophets of flesh (army wide 4++)
Urien Rakarth-warlord Haemonculus, whip, stinger pistol Haemonculus, whip, stinger pistol, helm of spite
10 wracks, 2 ossefactors, champ has agonizer 10 wracks, 2 ossefactors, champ has agonizer 10 wracks, 2 ossefactors, champ has agonizer
6 grotesques 6 grotesques
3 talos, chain flails, macro scalpel 2x haywire blaster 3 talos, chain flails, macro scalpel 2x haywire blaster cronos, spirit probe, spirit vortex
totals:
8th ed: 1666 points, 8+d3 CP
9th ed; 1985 points, 12+d3 CP
thoughts on this one is pretty straightforward... talos vehicle hunt with haywire and fight heavy targets in melee... the grots are infantry blenders while the wracks are pretty tough objective sitters... the cronos... well he's there to try and help and characters give buffs.
favorite secondaries are going to be abhor the witch when applicable, bring it down, attrition or while we stand we fight, engage on all fronts
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Jul 20, 2020 13:21:03 GMT -5
To be completely honest, this list looks "very 9th ed" compared to some of the other lists. I honestly don't know what that really means cus we're all still feeling things out. But something about this just looks/feels right compared to other lists I've seen in various bat-reps and such.
13+ CP pre-battle with very little pre-deployment expenditures means you'll have tons of CP to dump into strats (like replenishing a key unit of Wracks), command re-rolls and other various things, your objective holders are happy to give up their turn to take actions like Raise The Banners High, and you will definitely have a large mid-field presence.
Honestly, those Drukhari look nasty on paper.
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