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Post by voodoo on Aug 28, 2020 15:11:23 GMT -5
I had a bit of time this afternoon and decided to play around with ideas for a new 2k worth of Nurgle stuff. I’m just not 100% clear on whether or not Mortarion can be added to a plague company or not and whether or not he’d benefit from their rules. I feel like no, but without having the book on me, I’m not 100% sure. The idea is to jam the anvil company down people’s throats except for the poxwalkers who will hide and hold objectives while the Poxmonger Company rains death down from the backfield. Thoughts?
Death Guard Supreme Command Detachment – 0 cp – Mortarion’s Anvil Plague Company
LoW
Mortarion the Reaper
Death Guard Patrol Detachment – 2 cp (refunded) – Mortarion’s Anvil Plague Company
HQ:
Wing Prince – 2x Talons
Wing Prince – 2x Talons
Troops:
10x Poxwalkers
10x Poxwalkers
Elites:
Tallyman – Plasma Pistol, Blight & Krak Grenades **RELIC** - The Tally
5x Deathshroud Terminators – 5x Plaguespurt Gauntlets, 5x Manreapers
Fast Attack:
4x Spawn
Death Guard Spearhead Detachment – 3cp – The Poxmonger Plague Company
HQ:
Chaos Lord in Terminator Armor – Combi-Bolter, Balesword - **RELIC** Iron Coagulation Oven
Heavy Support:
Plagueburst Crawler – 2x Entropy Cannons, Heavy Slugger, Plagueburst Mortar
Plagueburst Crawler – 2x Entropy Cannons, Heavy Slugger, Plagueburst Mortar
Plagueburst Crawler – 2x Entropy Cannons, Heavy Slugger, Plagueburst Mortar
2,000 on the nose
8CP on T1
The Tally gives all of my units within 7” of that guy exploding 6’s in the melee phase for free bonus hits.
The Iron Coagulation Oven gives my Crawlers a 4++ while the lord is nearby.
I’d need another crawler, a tallyman and to convert or buy 2 more Deathshroud in order to run this one. I'm not 100% sold on it's ability to do anything but run forward and die spectacularly.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Aug 28, 2020 15:36:00 GMT -5
no, LOW's in a supreme command do not benefit from the detachment rules
I don't think Morty needs it...lol
List looks super deadly... I'm not quite sure how to beat it.. I guess you take bring it down as a secondary, but good luck killing those crawlers kitted out like that.
ugh... dirty
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Post by Typhus on Aug 28, 2020 16:31:41 GMT -5
I’m just not 100% clear on whether or not Mortarion can be added to a plague company or not and whether or not he’d benefit from their rules. Technically speaking, you do determine a Plague Host for each Death Guard detachment, but as a special character Mortarion can never benefit from it - nor can Typhus, except for the one Plague Host which gives Typhus explicit permission to gain the relevant keyword. Death Guard Supreme Command Detachment – 0 cp – Motarion’s Anvil Plague Company LoW Mortarion the Reaper Death Guard Patrol Detachment – 2 cp (refunded) – Mortarion’s Anvil Plague Company HQ: Wing Prince – 2x Talons Wing Prince – 2x Talons Troops: 10x Poxwalkers 10x Poxwalkers Elites: Tallyman – Plasma Pistol, Blight & Krak Grenades **RELIC** - The Tally 5x Deathshroud Terminators – 5x Plaguespurt Gauntlets, 5x Manreapers Fast Attack: 4x Spawn Death Guard Spearhead Detachment – 3cp – The Poxmonger Plague Company HQ: Chaos Lord in Terminator Armor – Combi-Bolter, Balesword - **RELIC** Iron Coagulation Oven Heavy Support: Plagueburst Crawler – 2x Entropy Cannons, Heavy Slugger, Plagueburst Mortar Plagueburst Crawler – 2x Entropy Cannons, Heavy Slugger, Plagueburst Mortar Plagueburst Crawler – 2x Entropy Cannons, Heavy Slugger, Plagueburst Mortar 2,000 on the nose 8CP on T1 The Tally gives all of my units within 7” of that guy exploding 6’s in the melee phase for free bonus hits. The Iron Coagulation Oven gives my Crawlers a 4++ while the lord is nearby. I’d need another crawler, a tallyman and to convert or buy 2 more Deathshroud in order to run this one. I'm not 100% sold on it's ability to do anything but run forward and die spectacularly. Cool list! Here are my thoughts: I'm not the biggest fan of Mortarion as the warlord. Unfortunately he has to be if you want to bring him and not spew an additional 3 CP, but it feels like it's a big risk that he won't give up Cut Off The Head on turn one. You probably want to use Accelerated Entropy on at least one of your Plagueburst Crawlers, if you're going to bring Entropy Cannons. Poxmongers is a clear must-take for Plagueburst Crawlers. The relic is so strong. Personally, I've had better luck with Mortarion's Chosen Sons as my Plague Host of choice for supporting Deathshroud Terminators. Being able to deepstrike and dump 4d6 12" D2 flamer shots (which are, of course, plague weapons) has been potent - and that's just a minimum-sized unit! Speaking of which, don't forget the give the Deathshroud champion a second plaguespurt gauntlet! You can't actually have both the Ironclot Furance (err, "Iron Coagulation Oven") and the Tollkeeper ("The Tally") relics. The Death Guard "extra relic" stratagem allows you to purchase extra Relics of Decay, but the Plague Host-specific relics are Putrescent Relics[/i] and thus you can only ever have at most one, full stop. no, LOW's in a supreme command do not benefit from the detachment rules In a Supreme Command detachment they do (that is - Mortarion, Guilliman, and Magnus do). In an Auxilliary Support detachment they would not. But Mortarion gains nothing from Inexorable Advance anyway - he isn't armed with a Heavy weapon, an Assault weapon, or a Rapid Fire weapon. |
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Post by voodoo on Aug 28, 2020 21:07:43 GMT -5
Darn... I'd thought that the line from the FAQ allowed us to toss multiple Plague Host relics into the mix. "Page 65 – Putrescent Relics Change the first sentence to read: ‘If your army is led by Mortarion or a Death Guard <Plague Company> Warlord, you can give the relevant <Plague Company> Putrescent Relic to a Death Guard <Plague Company> Character model from your army instead of giving them a Relic of Decay from Codex: Death Guard.’" If I can't stack them, then I may pick something different. I'm also not a big fan of Morty being the warlord, but that's why I included such a prodigious unit of Deathshroud termies. They're the unfortunate sacrificial lambs to make sure he lives past turn 1 when the army advances; bells tolling. I do like the idea of being able to drop them in and just feed those flamer shots to a unit. |
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Aug 30, 2020 7:38:16 GMT -5
Yeah, looks like you're limited to just grabbing the relic from one plague company regardless of detachments. Because even if you pay for an extra warlord trait, they still aren't the warlord. (Otherwise they'd count for Cut Off the Head or whatever the secondary is for Slay The Warlord)
I'm very curious about this list and what you're thinking about here, because Death Guard and the 2W change has me highly interested in converting the shambled remains of my Space Wolves into something else, and based on what wargear/models I have a conversion to Plague Marines wouldn't be terribly difficult.
I took a long hard read through the plague companies the other day, there's a lot to take in.
One thing that catches me through is that you've chosen both Poxmongers and Morty's Anvil, both defensive minded improvement companies, where as your list is highly highly aggressive and in-your-face with Morty, 2 Princes, Spawn and a (likely deepstriking?) unit of Deathshrouds. Which seems like a bit of a mis-match. It works, but with the uncovered issue of having either The Tally OR the Ironclot Furnace, I think you just have to go with the Ironclot, almost 1/3rd of your points is in those crawlers, and they really soak up firepower
My thoughts on Plagueburst Crawlers is at BS 4+ they are too expensive to put in the backfield because they'll miss half the time, and with the confirmation that Dense Terrain affects the BS of non LOS weaponry giving them a -1 to hit, they'll often be hitting on 5+. Instead they could be armed with Plague Spewers instead of Entropy Cannons and push up with the more aggressive elements of the list, where their ability to shrug off those hits with T8 and 4++/5+++ is really impressive.
Additionally, Tallyman, since he no longer carries the relic, you could swap for a Noxious Blightbringer who can both carry the Ironclot Furnace instead of the extra Chaos Lord, and allow the Plagueburst Crawlers to zip with the advance roll to get those nasty plagueburst crawlers up field quickly to provide target saturation against morty, AND free up some points for more scoring units. what a 2-for-1. Suddenly all the weapons that defaulty are gunna punish Morty, are tempted by the triple-plagueburst being in their face as well. Creating sort of a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't for the opponent.
Anyways, this is all food-for-thought, I'd love to hear what you think of all this because I obviously never played death guard, and there's a huge difference between theory-craft and on-the-table-experience.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Aug 30, 2020 8:56:26 GMT -5
entrophy cannons are amazing... don't lose them and they should hold your backline. You have enough aggressive elements. Dense terrain is not that plentiful, you'll be hitting on 4's rerolling 1's. If you lose the entrophy cannons you cut down on your anti-tank shooting as S8 vs. S7 is a HUGE jump in power on shooting vs. anything tough... plus 9" range is pretty sucky.
putting the furnace relic on anything that is NOT a chaos lord/prince level of toughness is asking to lose it all. Space Marine eliminators exist and those minor characters are just going to get sniped out, become priority #1 if you're holding an essential relic for the viability of your list on the easy to kill character instead of the terminator chaos lord! Plus the lord provides a counter-charge element to your list that makes sending someone out to badtouch the crawlers pretty risky.
You can't push everything forward in 9th and leave your backfield to just poxwalkers on an objective because everything can outflank now for CP.
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Aug 30, 2020 12:32:12 GMT -5
Interesting, my line of thinking was that pushing the crawlers forward would allow the princes to play more midfieldy rather than following morty in and having them use the crawlers as a source of look out sir. Then they can respond to threats with their speedy wings. A bit of a role difference than being hyper aggressive with Morty.
My hesitation with the Entropy Canon is the old school 4+ single shot always misses line of thinking. I feel like I would want my crawlers to be relying on their mortar (Which is effectively a Battle Cannon profile wise) as it's primary anti-tank weapon. If you really need to fall back to shoot the mortar as it's blast, being a Poxmonger you have access to their specific Strat to do so, or you can happily sit there in melee and flame things to death.
I'm thinking that I would want to use the tough-leman-Russ like body first and the offense second. Absorb the charge from a more aggressive opponent with their T8 bodies then counter attack. I guess that difference in role might be the source of the weapon choice between the entropy vs spitter.
You've swayed me about the blightbringer being target numero uno with that relic on him. I suppose I'm still thinking characters are more difficult to snipe out than they are in 9th. Your definitely right it would easy to remove that 4++ and break down the wall after.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Aug 30, 2020 14:57:53 GMT -5
if you're not hyper aggressive with mortarian he doesn't contribute enough...you have to push him forward and say "deal with this"... and they have two entropies each, so that's six shots hit on 4's reroll 1's and they can contribute from the start. So much dies in 9th in the first two turns it's crazy... death guard having resilient units and shooting that can weather the storm and still hold objectives makes them one of the top armies right now.
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Post by voodoo on Aug 30, 2020 15:17:12 GMT -5
Yeah, the blightbringer also doesn't offer a reroll 1's buff, which is why the termie lord is there. It's a body the list doesn't need to work, and can't afford anyhow.
The "old" way when crawlers were cheaper was to do exactly what you said. Ignore the mortar and just charge them up the middle with double spitters and dare people to get close.
I chose ths Anvil because it'll allow me to park the Desthshroud next to Morty and the princes T1 in case I dont go first, ensuring their safety to see T2. They absorb shots, plus they can pop the strat for reduced damage to make them able to really soak a ton of ranged hatred.
If I can't also pick the Tally for exploding 6's then I'll swap for th bellringer to get my advances (if necessary) out there faster.
The prines, morty, spawn and Desthshroud can beatstick all day without needing a special buff too that. Keeping them alive for th initial onslaught seems like a decent trade of points for the deathshroud.
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Post by Typhus on Aug 30, 2020 16:01:05 GMT -5
You may also want to consider equipping one of your Daemon Princes with a Hellforged Sword instead of a second Malefic Talon. With Soul Harvest and the Epidemicyst Blade, they put in serious work. S8 with a 3 damage Plague Weapon (and the ability to throw 9 attacks into Infantry, in a pinch) with exploding 6s to hit (double exploding 6s to hit, if you're fighting Imperium) makes him a serious wrecking ball.
Incidentally, Chaos Lords are not actually really tougher than Noxious Blightbringers. Chaos Lords are only T4, and don't have Disgustingly Resilient. The math actually favours the Noxious Blightbringer (marginally) against every kind of sniper. I would recommend upgrading him to a Lord of Contagion, if possible (possibly ditching a Chaos Spawn to do so?). You could also consider upgrading the Chaos Lord to be a Contaminated Monstrosity.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Aug 30, 2020 21:13:17 GMT -5
death guard termie lords don't have DR? well that's just silly
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Post by voodoo on Aug 31, 2020 7:08:05 GMT -5
Yeah, but for a point it's easy to pop it on him using Contaminated Monstrosity; I've heard it done with Defilers a lot as it's just ANY DG unit. It's that's a command point spend that will give you LOTS of mileage. Plus, to replace his re-roll buff; I'd have to find points for another daemon prince. I know that a prince in the backfield would really dissuade deep strikers trying to go after the crawlers, but having 200 points just camping for a buff felt like a hot waste.
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Post by Typhus on Aug 31, 2020 12:16:06 GMT -5
Yeah, but for a point it's easy to pop it on him using Contaminated Monstrosity; I've heard it done with Defilers a lot as it's just ANY DG unit. It's that's a command point spend that will give you LOTS of mileage. Plus, to replace his re-roll buff; I'd have to find points for another daemon prince. I know that a prince in the backfield would really dissuade deep strikers trying to go after the crawlers, but having 200 points just camping for a buff felt like a hot waste. You can also spend 1 CP on Harbinger of Nurgle to make a Lord of Contagion/Typhus into a proper Lord, with the reroll 1s aura. An LoC runs about 12 points more than a terminator Chaos Lord, but is significantly more durable. |
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Post by voodoo on Aug 31, 2020 14:03:04 GMT -5
Yeah, but for a point it's easy to pop it on him using Contaminated Monstrosity; I've heard it done with Defilers a lot as it's just ANY DG unit. It's that's a command point spend that will give you LOTS of mileage. Plus, to replace his re-roll buff; I'd have to find points for another daemon prince. I know that a prince in the backfield would really dissuade deep strikers trying to go after the crawlers, but having 200 points just camping for a buff felt like a hot waste. You can also spend 1 CP on Harbinger of Nurgle to make a Lord of Contagion/Typhus into a proper Lord, with the reroll 1s aura. An LoC runs about 12 points more than a terminator Chaos Lord, but is significantly more durable. Cool! I didn't know that. Gives some food for thought for sure. |
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Sept 2, 2020 8:23:17 GMT -5
Adding to the knowledge pool here, TTT (Table Top Titans) is using a pretty neat little combo in their Death Guard list in their current stream-tournament.
The idea is you either give the Warlord Trait Arch-Contaminator either naturally, or via Plaguechosen for 1CP to the character who is escorting the Crawlers and also optionally give them the Ironclot Furnace as a relic if you're running Pox Mongers.
This translates to:
Hit on 4+, rerolling ones with D6 +2 shots (X3 Crawlers)
Wound on Str 8, rerolling all failed wounds (Plague Weapon + Arch-Contaminator)
Finally, if you get both Entropy Cannon shots through, use Accelerated Entropy to make their damage min-3 max 6 each.
Honestly that sounds pretty nasty.
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