Insane Eldar Army

[raceygaming]

So this is one of the coolest armies I have seen. I didn't even watch the battle report but just the army showcase at the start.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T4bNoDb5sk


The Xenomorph style wraiths with the Nid kits is amazing!

[Jack Shrapnel]

Yeah I've seen this conversion before, they did a STELLAR job!

[voodoo]

They remind me a lot of venom the way he's painted them up. It's cool, and something really unique, that much is certain.

[raceygaming]

I watched the game and as you might expect taking 3 wraith knight is just a terrible idea. I think they make it to turn 3 before the tabling but I don't think about of the Wraiths knights make it that long. Its pretty rough to watch one of the coolest looking monster kits just melt.

LOW seem to be in such a rough spot right now Eldar or otherwise (maybe slightly less for Knights/Chaos Knights cause they get detachment bonuses at least)

[Jack Shrapnel]

Yeah I watched it as well.. super painful... just got removed.

Pretty much my experience with wraiths too. I mean I still knowingly built and painted 2k of wraiths anyways, but it's no where close to being able to actually throw down a fair game. Wraith knights are just terrible. Like you're playing 400 points down by bringing one - nevermind three!

[raceygaming]

Ya I don't want it to go back to the days where every list had a super heavy helper but man are the super heavies in a bad place. The loss to of faction bonuses on the units, 99% are over 18 wounds and can't be obscured, and many became less point efficient thanks to FW updates.

I think models like the wraith knight have hit their peak in terms of point reduction, you can't really dip below that 390-400 range without causing major balance issue. They just need something to get them back onto the table and in that centre piece role.

[voodoo]

Agreed, as a Knight player; I understand that more than anyone. No line of sight needed, you can shoot lascannons through a mountain and hit knights. I'm not saying knights deserve cover, but at least say that line of sight matters again. I'd gladly accept never getting a bonus to my armor save if people couldn't shoot through impassible terrain to hit me.

[Frosty the Pirate]

I haven't seen the army before, but yeah, 47/10 on the conversions. Those are awesome! The air-brushed ethreal paint job is also really really well done. Even with the tools I couldn't replicate that with all the time in the world.

Wraithknights are in a super-terrible place for sure. I was joking with a friend the other day that even if you just tried to band-aid fix them by dropping them 100 points they would still be awful. So I fully agree the balance can't be points fixes.

Wraith units in general need a pretty big overhaul to work correctly. The Wraithseer gives me hope they might explore the "ignore AP" space with them, since Wraithbone by the lore is supposed to be basically impermeable to man-portable weapons as strong as Heavy Bolters for example, and some of the other defensive buffs being handed out to the bad nasty boys would work quite well on Wraiths as well (such as -1 debuff on to wound rolls)

A really unique option for fixing Wraiths in general would be to keep their Invuls low at 5++ (or none at all) so Protect doesn't get out of control, but give them huge buff of base 2+ armour saves, ignore AP1, and -1 to wound against weapons below S8 (Str 7 and below). I have no idea if this is even REMOTELY balanced, but it's going to take a defensive buff of that caliber imo to make anything that isn't Wraithblades with a Protect-buff-bot playable outside of casual play. (and Wraithblades are really only playable because they can cheese a 3++ invul)

(To clarify, my idea here is to make wraith-armour so tough that wraith's don't NEED an invul, so that even AP-3 or AP-4 weapons are still giving them 5+ or 6+ save respectively, which would be fair imo.)

[Jack Shrapnel]

T9, 2+ armor and a 5+ FNP. Then they'd be worth their points a bit more as they don't get as easily one shotted.

They absolutely tower over a wraithlord... they should be higher toughness. It's not like it'll save them from getting wounded on 3's by really big shots, but at least lascannons and melta have to struggle a bit to simply erase them.

I could also see them taking the -1 damage that the wraithseer gets and have that for all wraith units, going to ignore -2 for the wraithknight. Again, isn't going to save them from dedicated anti-tank / melta, but will mean the small stuff with just bounce. Dreads have it and it improved things dramatically for units like the redemptor.

Wraithknights should be powerful pieces... because they're like 400 points... more than C'tan, and certainly around the point level of Bobby G, almost Mortarian (depending on loadout) and nearly the silent King. All of which are vastly superior in every way. Even throw a Chaos Knight vs. a Wraithknight (very similar point profile and both superheavies) and see what happens - no contest! (and it's not like knights are top tier at the moment).