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Post by Malarks on Jul 18, 2021 6:34:55 GMT -5
Gotta make them pre-order sales and give scalpers a chance to get their bots ready.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jul 18, 2021 7:24:28 GMT -5
An unfortunate hint at when the regular Orks Codex will drop from Warhammer community. Looks like the regular copy of the Codex won't be available for at least another 4 weeks. Similar to what happened with the sisters box that had the codex in it. Was a delay of about a month...
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Post by raceygaming on Jul 18, 2021 22:45:49 GMT -5
So there's a large number of leaks (basically the whole codex) slowly make their way around the internet it appears. Anyone who wants to play Goffs, Snakebites, or Freebooterz is gunna be happy as a clam I think. They all seem like the strongest faction traits to me. Deathskulls and Evil Suns both got taken down a peg pretty hard. A lot of the ridiculous things like suicide burna-bomba are gone, KFF finally looks like its no longer going to be an auto-include after 4 editions of balance issues, all the "speciality" boyz units like Kommandos, Burnas, Tankbustas, Lootas, Flash Gitz all have significant improvements. The stratagem section in particular is rather toned down, but still a number of really strong ones and things that mostly _used_ to be inbuilt rules (such as Burna Boys getting extra AP in combat, or Flash Gitz shooting again) have been turned into stratgems. I appear to be required to eat my hat/t-shirt/etc, as Squighog Boyz are supposedly just 25ppm, but the Nob on Smashasquig is a separate unit that doesn't take a slot if you have a unit of Squighogs and costs 65. We'll see what else comes out as we get more confirmations, but things are looking really good for Orks, even through tons of people are already complaining about DDD and Mob Rule being massively overhauled. Ya they really flipped the script on the klan kultures. I will admit this is one of the most disappointing things in the codex. In 8th Deathskull was by far the best and need to be reigned in, but evil Suns was a great example of a strong and meaningful kulture., with the other 4 being quite weak. In comes 9th and nerfs deathskulls pretty badly but it also nerf bats Evil Suns, it happily buffs freebootas, goff and Snake bite to a level that feel good when compared to 8th evil suns and then it doesn't even touch the trash Blood Axes which is the same trash at 8th??? With everyone knowing that Were we Go was going to lose the pick and choose re-roll charge, the fact that evil suns lost the +1 to charge, and with the change to Dakka weapons the advance with assault isn't anything... Why did they double nerf the poster child for strong but not over powered. Lastly with the obvious changes to strats like no double fight, no double shoot, and no mob up or green tide AND the change to Mob rule to make orks very susceptible to leadership AND the loss of most good custom jobs; they are going to REALLY improve the base data sheets and keep the points low if they want orks to succeed outside of Goff/Snake bite beast snaaga boys.
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Jul 19, 2021 6:12:03 GMT -5
While I agree evil sun's got maybe unfairly nerfed, they likely will benefit quite a bit from other changes too. Their +1 to charge was folded into their +2 to move for being speed freaks.
I think the reason evil sun's had to be rebalanced is because of what your getting at. The power of the Ork Codex in 8th came from it's strategems and faction traits, where as the units were kinda being "carried" by the abilities they had access to. Where as the 9th book appears to be flipped on its head, and the real power of the Codex is in the units and the traits and strategems are kinda just the gravy/whipped-cream/cherry-on-top/however-you-make-your-sundaes
Ive only seen a few points leaks so far but they all seem quite strong. Most units appear to have almost no change in points despite significant statline improvements or weapons changes, so my feeling is that GW felt the armies were the right size, it's just the hitting/staying power that needed upgraded
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Post by raceygaming on Jul 19, 2021 7:27:56 GMT -5
While I agree evil sun's got maybe unfairly nerfed, they likely will benefit quite a bit from other changes too. Their +1 to charge was folded into their +2 to move for being speed freaks. I think the reason evil sun's had to be rebalanced is because of what your getting at. The power of the Ork Codex in 8th came from it's strategems and faction traits, where as the units were kinda being "carried" by the abilities they had access to. Where as the 9th book appears to be flipped on its head, and the real power of the Codex is in the units and the traits and strategems are kinda just the gravy/whipped-cream/cherry-on-top/however-you-make-your-sundaes Ive only seen a few points leaks so far but they all seem quite strong. Most units appear to have almost no change in points despite significant statline improvements or weapons changes, so my feeling is that GW felt the armies were the right size, it's just the hitting/staying power that needed upgraded Old 8th speed freaks were +1 movement or +2 with speed freaks keyword, +1 advance, +1 charge. They literally only nerfed it. Just seems like a double down since they reworked Here we Go, and removed any ability to advance and charge vehicles. I do hope to see more profiles and points before I conclude anything but I think we have another space wolves/ necron codex. OK, but you're going to have to put way more work in to see results than a similar codex.
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Post by Malarks on Jul 19, 2021 7:57:07 GMT -5
**TRANSMISSION REDACTED UNDER ORDERS OF THE GOD EMPEROR OF MANKIND**
*Thought for the day: "A Dedicated Life May Reach the End of Infinity."
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jul 19, 2021 7:57:44 GMT -5
I mean, if that is the worst loss, compared to the amazing unit changes we've seen, then although the whole "advance and charge buggies at you" strategy is not quite as good, it would seem that overall there are some real positives.
I felt similarly when the sisters codex got reworked and there were pretty major nerfs to the main units I play (exorcists, repentia, retributors, valourous heart order, seraphim etc. etc.) however after playing the army a few games now in it's "rebalanced" state, it still seems quite viable and solid, but not over the top. That seems to be the theme with the 9th edition books (I mean even death guard didn't turn out to be the boogyman everyone thought they would be). And when Drukhari was over the top they got quickly nerfed to bring them in line. Just Admech is the only outlier codex currently with the 9th ed books. Everything else appears to be able to compete with one another... again... assuming the worst abuses in admech get corrected much like Drukhari was.
to illustrate, with the 3 "rebalanced" sisters games I've played:
- loss to necrons - narrow win over death guard - narrow loss to necrons
and necrons are not seen as over the top at all. And the sisters book is a month old. And every game I played (ahem okay the first one I did the worst) were very close either way.
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Jul 19, 2021 8:09:06 GMT -5
My bad, I thought +2 movement for speed freaks for an improvement. I also didn't notice the redundant overlap between SpeedWaagh and Evil Suns trait, that feels like a real missed opportunity. Maybe the leaks have just left something out or they'll notice the overlap and fix it in a FAQ if luck strikes, but otherwise yeah it seems like Evil Suns unfortunately have gotten the shaft.
In other news, Warbikers seem amaaaaazing. 25ppm, smoke cloud is a native -1 to hit, twin Dakka 5/3 guns for 10 shots per bikers at 9" range on a M14" platform, and free choppas for +1A and AP-1.
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Post by voodoo on Jul 19, 2021 8:17:45 GMT -5
I have to agree with Shannon, saying that "It'll be another Necron or Dark Angels book" isn't really a bad thing. Dark Angels just put up a solid placing at a major GT.
So Orks won't be an easy button, but to be as consistent as Necrons isn't a bad shake. There's lots of combos that really do work well in that codex while not being hideously abusive and un-fun to play against.
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Post by raceygaming on Jul 19, 2021 9:24:18 GMT -5
*flails* Keep it together, Thomas... Just... Stop checking the forums... Just stop. You don't even play the fucking game, anymore! But you *want to* play... We want to push our little plastic soldiers around and make silly voices... But you know that it will just be a shit-show... You know it will be the same song and dance all over again - again and again... Shut up... Just shut the fuck up, Thomas, and wait for the god damned fucking codex to drop so you can play a game with someone chill who will help you learn the game without steamrolling you... Maybe get some therapy and medication before doing that, as well... And how are you going to transport your army if you will not ride the bus anymore? This is all stupid and pointless! Freaking out over mu... At the very least, it is neat to hear Freebootas might be "strong" - at least my Badrukk might get a chance to do something? Maybe? Fucking hell... Freeboota's are going to be the shooting army of choice for sure. That +1 to hit for everything in the shooting phase is going to be big. You just need to make sure you have a unit that can put down the hurt on something that is MSU. If you can get a unit like a dakka jet, bike unit or a smasha gun that can pick up a little unit like cultist, grots, light vehicle etc. Then the rest of your army can just dump on people. Plus with the charges to transports and modifiers you can keep units like flash gits in a trukk or wagon and still get the +1 to hit so 3+ flash gits which seems pretty solid. Then you can still follow up with solid ork combat with most of your army hitting on 2s. Its a good time to be an Ork in a pirate hat!
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Post by raceygaming on Jul 19, 2021 9:27:55 GMT -5
My bad, I thought +2 movement for speed freaks for an improvement. I also didn't notice the redundant overlap between SpeedWaagh and Evil Suns trait, that feels like a real missed opportunity. Maybe the leaks have just left something out or they'll notice the overlap and fix it in a FAQ if luck strikes, but otherwise yeah it seems like Evil Suns unfortunately have gotten the shaft. In other news, Warbikers seem amaaaaazing. 25ppm, smoke cloud is a native -1 to hit, twin Dakka 5/3 guns for 10 shots per bikers at 9" range on a M14" platform, and free choppas for +1A and AP-1. Ya the Bikes, Squig hogs and Deffkoptas are all looking really good in that mid 20-30 point range. I'm sure I'm just a little salty since in my mind the Evil suns were like a prefect power level in 8th being strong but not busted and I was sure they would care that into 9th and death skulls would come down and everything else would move up to them.
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Jul 19, 2021 9:58:10 GMT -5
My bad, I thought +2 movement for speed freaks for an improvement. I also didn't notice the redundant overlap between SpeedWaagh and Evil Suns trait, that feels like a real missed opportunity. Maybe the leaks have just left something out or they'll notice the overlap and fix it in a FAQ if luck strikes, but otherwise yeah it seems like Evil Suns unfortunately have gotten the shaft. In other news, Warbikers seem amaaaaazing. 25ppm, smoke cloud is a native -1 to hit, twin Dakka 5/3 guns for 10 shots per bikers at 9" range on a M14" platform, and free choppas for +1A and AP-1. Ya the Bikes, Squig hogs and Deffkoptas are all looking really good in that mid 20-30 point range. I'm sure I'm just a little salty since in my mind the Evil suns were like a prefect power level in 8th being strong but not busted and I was sure they would care that into 9th and death skulls would come down and everything else would move up to them. I don't blame ya at all for salt, I'm gunna have a salt-mine's worth of RAAAAAGE when Craftworlds gets their dex too. Hopefully you guys can talk me down off the ledge then too. =)
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jul 19, 2021 10:20:44 GMT -5
lol... I'm sure Tyranids, daemons and GSC new books will have me needing to be talked off the ledge too... it's understandable to have worries when they're radically changing up armies this edition.
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Post by Typhus on Jul 19, 2021 10:51:56 GMT -5
It's a real shame. After the excellent Sisters of Battle codex I was hopeful GW had figured things out - but here comes the Orks codex with yet more Grot nerfs, and some of the grossest power disparity between subfaction traits we've ever seen.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jul 19, 2021 11:07:09 GMT -5
however with the sistersthere's some bewildering choices in there - some orders are clearly superior to others which you'd never take, only a couple relics are worth it, only a couple warlord traits and blessings are worth it, strat changes etc.
I'd say they're BALANCED sisters... but they're no where near the power level of Drukhari or Admech... they seem to be balanced vs. Marines / necron power level.
Which I'm totally 100% fine with!
I think it's far too early to say Orks are also not at this same power level. Especially if they've retained their point premium, which it seems they have!
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