Disciples of Belakor - first shot

[Jack Shrapnel]

Okay, I've sorted through the book and here's my first try... he would 100% be stronger in a daemons battalion without him being the warlord (as it throws out the ton of restrictions he has) but I want to give his regiment of reknown a try (you know, to justify this otherwise useless hardcover I bought!)

Belakor - warlord, Shrouded step (can move a unit outside of 9" of enemy models), wreathed in shades (unit cannot be targeted unless closest or within 12")

Changecaster - Gaze of fate, flickering flames - the impossible robe


20 bloodletters - banner of blood, icon, instrument
20 bloodletters - banner of blood, icon, instrument
20 horrors - icon
3 nurglings
3 nurglings

8 beasts of nurgle
9 flamers
5 terminators - 3x combi melta, 2x power axe, 3x lightning claws

5 furies - slaanesh
5 furies - slaanesh

5 havocs - 2x autocannon, 2x reaper chaincannon

1999 points - 10 CP

[Frosty the Pirate]

At first glance it does read very much like a space marines list. Lots of troops, some hard hitting combat and buffer characters, some specialist units that want to fight certain kinds of things.

It's certainly not terrible, and will play Stranglehold fairly decently with the ability to hold objectives and play for the opponent's. Durability/Longevity may be an issue in the later turns off the game but I feel like this could rack up a big lead early and play with a lead.

[Jack Shrapnel]

Another kick at the can with Disciples of Belakor:


++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Chaos - Daemons) [100 PL, 11CP, 1,997pts] ++

+ Configuration + Army of Renown - Disciples of Be'lakor


+ HQ +

Be'lakor [18 PL, 360pts]: Penumbral Curse, Shrouded Step, Warlord
Changecaster [5 PL, 85pts]: Gaze of Fate, Shrouded Step, The Endless Grimoire, Wreathed in Shades
Contorted Epitome [11 PL, 210pts]: Delightful Agonies, Hysterical Frenzy

+ Troops +

30 Bloodletters [12 PL, -1CP, 265pts]: Banner of Blood, Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos
Nurglings [3 PL, 66pts] 3x Nurgling Swarms: 3x Diseased claws and teeth
Nurglings [3 PL, 66pts] 3x Nurgling Swarms: 3x Diseased claws and teeth

+ Elites +

8 Beasts of Nurgle [16 PL, 280pts]

3 Fiends [6 PL, 125pts]: Blissbringer

9 Flamers [9 PL, 207pts]:

Terminators [8 PL, 150pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Terminator: Combi-bolter, Power axe
. Terminator: Combi-melta, Lightning Claw
. Terminator: Combi-bolter, Power axe
. Terminator: Combi-bolter, Lightning Claw
. Terminator Champion: Combi-melta, Lightning Claw

+ Fast Attack +

5 Furies [2 PL, 45pts]: Mark of Khorne

+ Heavy Support +

Havocs [7 PL, 138pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Astartes chainsword, Combi-bolter
. 2x Havoc w/ autocannon: 2x Autocannon, 2x Frag & Krak grenades
. Havoc w/ heavy bolter: Heavy bolter
. Havoc w/ reaper chaincannon: Reaper chaincannon

++ Total: [100 PL, 11CP, 1,997pts] ++

Changes? why changes?

The cortorted is the biggest change here and she's pretty pricey, but she gives another source in addition to the fiends to lock down a unit in combat to keep my units safer. She also can use delightful agonies and hysterical frenzy on Belakor as he has the slaanesh keyword - so giving him a 6+ FNP and the ability to fight in the psychic phase. 

Went for one big brick of bloodletters to keep that 2+ to hit as long as possible, and with psychic support I don't need to deep strike as there's shrouded step. Also the changecaster has a strat to autocast a spell, so that gives a lot of reliability there. 

[Jack Shrapnel]

Well, got a right Royal stomping by orks today ( called it turn three as I had furies and two havocs left!)

Back to the drawing board I think

Man new orks are good!

[raceygaming]

I definately think there is something there. The no re-roll of any kind for demons is pretty crazy for armies that build in those 200 pts of support characters.
Also my orks were pretty melee heavy so the -1 to hit outside 12" might be worth more than it looks on paper.

I think Belakor is more of a glass cannon than I thought he would be, but he is powerful.

I'm also game to house rule that any chaos marine can pay +5 pts to get thier wounds to match loyalist. I'm tried of how long GW is sleeping on this very reasonable quality of life change that's 18 months over due.

[Jack Shrapnel]

Yeah I think I've got some adjustments to do. Most notably the beasts without GUO resurrection support are not as tanky as I'd like, however what they were facing simply didn't care about a warpsurged 4++ / 5+ FNP and five wounds (Orks can put out a mindboggling amount of damage!)

I'm trying to decide if they have a place, or if it's moreso just not in this list. Also the epitome is extremely expensive for what she can do. She's fine against chaff and the +1 to cast is nice, but I don't think it's 210 points nice

I'm going to keep thinking on it. The limitations with building a disciples list are very challenging and I'm tempted to just immediately jump into a full Daemon list using Belakor but not in his combined arms list.... but that seems like the easy way out... need to struggle through this listbuilding exercise first lol

[raceygaming]

Ya 6 beast getting wiped by ghazy isnt a fair measuring stick when he was full buffed to 9x S17 attacks at flat 4 damage and exploding 6s. That's like the worst thing beast can face. Agaisnt a more reasonable S5 elite like blade guard they can hang out for a really long time.

[Jack Shrapnel]

Yeah that's my basic thought process as well.

I think I just have to be more efficient and measured with my choices, so everything has a role geared towards the secondaries moreso than "oh man, I have to add another X unit because of these damn restrictions"

[raceygaming]

Could you use a herald as a caster with the nurgle heal spell to support beast?
I know princes and greater demons are out.

[voodoo]

It's the constant balancing of "you cannot take a second unit of any god unless you have one of each... cannot take a third unless two of each... etc." that becomes the problem.

[Jack Shrapnel]

I could... but then I'd have to drop a nurgle unit as you cannot add a second of any god unit until you have one of each... same with a third, fourth etc.

My primary thoughts are to lose the epitome (210 points is just too much for what she brings) and switch the beasts for 6 plague drones with banner / instrument. The drones allow me to use the strat of passing morale with an automatic 1 to bring one back every turn. If I switch the fiends to singles instead of a unit of three, it gets around the slaanesh god requirement. I can free up about 250 points with these changes, which I think I should be using to add units that can achieve secondary / primary.

[Jack Shrapnel]

hmmm... drones and beasts... what about both?

Here's an updated version which may not have as much "teeth" so to speak, but I think plays the secondary / primary game better:


++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Chaos - Daemons) [99 PL, 11CP, 1,997pts] ++
Army of Renown - Disciples of Be'lakor


+ HQ +

Be'lakor [18 PL, 360pts]: Penumbral Curse, Shrouded Step, Warlord
Changecaster [5 PL, 85pts]: Gaze of Fate, Shrouded Step, The Endless Grimoire, Wreathed in Shades

+ Troops +

30 Bloodletters [12 PL, -1CP, 265pts]: Banner of Blood, Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos
Horrors [4 PL, 50pts]: 10x Pair of Brimstone Horrors
Nurglings [3 PL, 66pts] 3x Nurgling Swarms: 3x Diseased claws and teeth
Nurglings [3 PL, 66pts] 3x Nurgling Swarms: 3x Diseased claws and teeth

+ Elites +

5 Beasts of Nurgle [10 PL, 175pts]
Fiends [2 PL, 40pts]: Fiend
Fiends [2 PL, 40pts]: Fiend
Fiends [2 PL, 40pts]: Fiend
9 Flamers [9 PL, 207pts]:
Terminators [8 PL, 150pts]: No Chaos Mark
. Terminator: Combi-bolter, Power axe
. Terminator: Combi-melta, Lightning Claw
. Terminator: Combi-bolter, Power axe
. Terminator: Combi-bolter, Lightning Claw
. Terminator Champion: Combi-melta, Lightning Claw

+ Fast Attack +

Furies [2 PL, 45pts]: Mark of Khorne 5x Fury: 5x Daemonic claws
Furies [2 PL, 45pts]: Mark of Khorne 5x Fury: 5x Daemonic claws
6 Plague Drones [10 PL, 225pts]: Daemonic Icon

+ Heavy Support +

Havocs [7 PL, 138pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Astartes chainsword, Combi-bolter
. 2x Havoc w/ autocannon: 2x Autocannon, 2x Frag & Krak grenades
. Havoc w/ heavy bolter: Heavy bolter
. Havoc w/ reaper chaincannon: Reaper chaincannon

++ Total: [99 PL, 11CP, 1,997pts] ++

slaanesh (3) - 3 single fiends
Khorne (3) - bloodletter bomb and 2x furies
Nurgle (4) - beasts, drones and 2x nurglings
Tzeentch (3) - changecaster, brimstones, flamers

Roles:

Melee punch / trades: Belakor, terminators, bloodletters
Shooting: havocs, terminators, flamers
Secondaries (ROD, Engage): Fiends, furies, brimstones, nurglings, terminators, bloodletters
Primary: nurglings, havocs, drones, beasts, brims
Support: Belakor, changecaster, 

[Frosty the Pirate]

I agree this will generally put up a higher VP score over the previous version, the fiends and furies alone will probably be able to max engage/rod points alone, and nurglings/horrors will do an excellent job of cheaply holding primary points that are away from the front line.

I feel like the Drones and Beasts are more of a trading unit than primary focused, while your goal might be for them to fight for an objective in midfield/opposing-DZ, you might not want to count of their primary scoring all the time due to lack of obsec. Against certain lists or in certain missions it does make sense they would likely be fighting for primary points, but I can't see you being ok with them just standing on an objective and not doing anything but hold that point given their points investment.

I think the Bloodletters swapping roles with the Drones/Beasts for primary objective taking makes more sense, their obsec would be a huge benefit given you have 30 of them, and the Drones/Beasts are going to draw threat over them easily. The "wholly within" constraints of ROD/Engage make that huge 30 model blob less ideal unless they've been beat up badly or it's very late in the game and there's a lot more space to maneuver.

[Jack Shrapnel]

well they're more for midfield. They can outfight most obsec (marines especially given a lot of D2 attacks) and if they can bully a central objective then they've gotten me some points and I'm happy. Even if they just speedbump something tougher than them to delay a bit, I'm good with that too. They literally have to do an objective only once to snag an extra 5 points for a turn, which is why I put them in primary. Plus they won't be able to trade up. They're a unit that tends to not kill anything close to what their points are, but just bog down the enemy.

The bloodletters are busy charging around the board eliminating threats which often means they won't be anywhere near an objective (as they aggressively try and take out elite melee units or hordes). Bloodletters sadly do not have the staying power to cap an objective for long. T3 with a 5++ is pretty damn poor. And if I'm having them objective sit then they're not doing their job. They certainly won't be wasting their turn doing a ROD unless they're whittled down pretty harshly. Even a 10 man unit is better off charging something than trying to survive the terrifying might of bolters!

[Frosty the Pirate]

Entirely fair, I guess you can flex things around as needed since it's a bit more versatile. I was just thinking the Drones/Beasts can't do the infantry actions, and maybe my assessment of their hitting/trading power is just off a bit.

Seems like an improvement for sure through!