Unyielding Necrons

[distractedcarnifex]

Sept 11, 2021 21:04:48 GMT -5 trantos01 said:

Well tested out the first iteration of the list today against a Dark Angel Deathwing list (with the natural transhuman, 1+ save from the shields and the -1 damage buff, those guys are really hard to kill) and did fairly well (71 to 77 points). Chronomancer defiantly improves warrior survivability but the 'grant light cover' arkana never really came into play.

Also need to think about swapping out the Wraiths for lychguard for a test.  Sure they're slower and can't bounce around the battlefield, but can be revived by the technomancer and wouldn't out-run the rest of the army.  Because 99% of the time, Wraiths charge forward and die, with or without inflicting decent causalities.  Yes, their goal is a distraction carnifex but still....

While your Wraiths died, they did kill an Infiltrator Squad and disrupt my Characters for two turns. They also pushed back my Inceptor drop. 

[voodoo]

I've had luck with 2x2 Heavy Destroyer units armed with the "good gun" and a pair of Doomstalkers backed up by a Techno w/ CCN. Put them into a patrol with a single flayer blob and make them Szarekhan for the 5++ vs. mortals, re-roll damage per unit and the 4+ deny strat. It's a good little backfield combo that does a lot of work. The warriors in there string out in the backfield to reduce deepstrike options as well as offering the Doomstalkers the ability to overwatch anything trying to get close and touch the warriors. If you can spare points for a Chrono in the same detachment, it only helps buff up the LHD's as you can really force your opponent to shoot the buffed one because they're fast enough to move out of optimal LoS.

[Frosty the Pirate]

So after seeing Raceygaming's list on the previous page, I took some time yesterday to actually read the necron's 'dex cover to cover and try to understand the faction at a deeper level since their rework. This is the first time in a while I've brain-flushed and completely relearned a faction from ground up, and I thought brain-dumping some of my thoughts and list here would be interesting.

So first impressions upon reading the data slates was that Necrons have a very strong HQ slot, lots of powerful characters. their Troops slot and Elite slots also have a lot of power and utility in them, and the Fast Attack slot is also quite good with several strong choices (wraiths, swarms, tomb-blades). However the Heavy Support slot is a bit weak and Necrons seem to lack anti-tank firepower without leaning heavily on expensive high-risk weaponry (low number of high quality shots).

Upon reading the Stratagems, Warlord Traits, and Relics, I noticed that Necrons tend to have very few strats they want to use during battle. Entropic Strike, Disruption Fields, Eternal Protectors, and Self-Destruction were all strategems that stood out as things I could build around. These are all Fight-Phase mechanics, which means I'd be leaning on melee to do the heavy-lifting, meaning I'd need to get a fairly-slow army to bear with the enemy.

But after looking at Secondary Objectives, I realized I have no need to go out and be the aggressor and footslog towards a shooting opponent. I can somewhat force the opponent to come to me by leaning on Relentlessly Expansionist + Purge The Vermin + An Action-Based-Secondary like Raise Banners or Investigate Signal and then just focus on clearing off whatever the opponent pushes in to contest or attempt to block purge the vermin. This could combo very nicely with a kill secondary such as No Prisoners or Grind Them Down since my units are individually quite durable.

Building around the image I'm starting to form:

-Take a Ctan shard
-Take Lychguard
-Take Deathmarks for their anti-reserve-arrival capability, and ability to plunk wounds on Characters
-Take Scarabs for Utility (speedbumping, deep-strike-zoning, screening)
-Load up on Punchy Characters
-Make sure to have some action-units who are happy to raise banners or just zone-out for PTV.

With that said, here's my first-ever attempt at a Necron's list:

"Cher-Noble" Traditions : Battalion Detachment 99 PL, 7CP, 2,000pts

Dynasty Choice: Custom
Circumstance of Awakening: Relentlessly Expansionist
Dynastic Tradition: Eternal Conquerors

+ No Force Org Slot +

Bound Creation [2 PL, 40pts]
Cryptothralls
2x Cryptothrall: 2x Scouring Eye, 2x Scythed Limbs

+ HQ +

Catacomb Command Barge [9 PL, -2CP, 195pts]: Gauss Cannon, Hand of the Phaeron, Relic: Nanoscarab Casket, Resurrection Orb, Warlord, Warlord Trait (Codex 1): Enduring Will, Warscythe

Psychomancer [5 PL, -2CP, 95pts]: Arkana: Atavindicator, Dynastic Heirlooms, Rarefied Nobility, Relic: Gauntlet of the Conflagrator, Warlord Trait (Codex 5): Implacable Conqueror (Aura)

Skorpekh Lord [7 PL, -1CP, 130pts]: Rarefied Nobility, Warlord Trait (Codex 2): Eternal Madness

+ Troops +

Necron Warriors [6 PL, 130pts]
10x Necron Warrior (Gauss Flayer): 10x Gauss Flayer

Necron Warriors [6 PL, 130pts]
10x Necron Warrior (Gauss Flayer): 10x Gauss Flayer

Necron Warriors [6 PL, 130pts]
10x Necron Warrior (Gauss Flayer): 10x Gauss Flayer

+ Elites +

C'tan Shard of the Void Dragon [18 PL, 350pts]: Power of the C'tan: Antimatter Meteor

Deathmarks [8 PL, 180pts]
10x Deathmark: 10x Synaptic Disintegrator

Lychguard [14 PL, 280pts]: 10x Lychguard
Hyperphase Sword and Dispersion Shield

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Scarab Swarms [4 PL, 75pts]
5x Canoptek Scarab Swarm: 5x Feeder Mandibles

Canoptek Scarab Swarms [4 PL, 75pts]
5x Canoptek Scarab Swarm: 5x Feeder Mandibles

+ Flyer +

Night Shroud [10 PL, 190pts]


Primary Goal is force the opponent to be the aggressor and have to come stop me from executing my gameplan.

Basic secondaries plan is to take Purge The Vermin, To The Last, and Raise The Banners High. Swapping out TTL for a kill secondary like Grind Them Down when against an opponent who will come actively make trades, and Raise The Banners for Investigate Signal if there's a central primary objective I can plant the Lychguard/CCB/Psychomancer/Cryptothralls on as nearly-immovable-rock that can remove Obsec from the opponent. Otherwise just be a pain in the opponent's face, without being overly aggressive, can do actions and the res orb helps regen the Lychguard's numbers if the opponent tries to focus them down. (Think similar to a Bladeguard Vet + Apothecary brick for Oath Of Moment, but with more utility and a nasty character and some mortal-wound output baked in)

Night Shroud starts the game in Strategic Reserves (I've earmarked 2CP for this) and comes in either turn 2 or 3 and drops it's "nuke", and positions to move-block either the center or an strategically important primary objective with Curse-Of-The-Phaeron for an auto-explode if the opponent removes it.

Deathmarks, Warriors and the Scarab Swarms job is to totally zone out the opponent from deepstriking into the table-quarters I'm controlling for PTV, while holding what primary objectives are available on my side of the board.

Ctan and Skorpeh Lord provide backup for anything trying to get inside my control zone, and just otherwise "play cagey" with little need to take risks. My scoring potential is extremely high-floor without dealing any damage to the opponent at all, so there's zero pressure to cross midfield.

It starts with just 5CP on Turn 1, and goes totally-against so many things I normally look for when building up a list. But I actually like it a lot. It probably has the "too many toys" problem where some more Guass Warriors would probably be better, and the Night Shroud is there mostly for the hilarious double-mortal-wound-nuke-burna-bomber technique and would probably be better as a D-Ark or some Lokhust Heavy Destroyers. But you gotta follow rule-of-cool sometimes.

Hopefully this was inspiring for at least one of you or fun to read, I honestly learned alot about the Necrons codex doing this.

[voodoo]

I'm sorry Ray, but this list is just a mess. Your warrior blocks are too small to hold anything reliably, they have no support, you've spent points on characters that will have little to no ability to benefit the style of play you're aiming at, and it's just very scattered.

Necrons can do a LOT of things very well, but when you try to have a list touch all of those things (melee, board control, shooting) then it inevitably fails. I found that out the hard way, as I'm sure many other necron lists have. Your "zone out" units will fold like a cheap card table to any kind of realistic firepower or melee threat as they have literally zero support in the form of a Chrono or Techno.

I don't mean to sound like a debbie downer, but in my experience; you're just asking too much from what you have presented here.

[Frosty the Pirate]

Sept 13, 2021 14:54:24 GMT -5 voodoo said:

I'm sorry Ray, but this list is just a mess. Your warrior blocks are too small to hold anything reliably, they have no support, you've spent points on characters that will have little to no ability to benefit the style of play you're aiming at, and it's just very scattered.

Necrons can do a LOT of things very well, but when you try to have a list touch all of those things (melee, board control, shooting) then it inevitably fails. I found that out the hard way, as I'm sure many other necron lists have. Your "zone out" units will fold like a cheap card table to any kind of realistic firepower or melee threat as they have literally zero support in the form of a Chrono or Techno.

I don't mean to sound like a debbie downer, but in my experience; you're just asking too much from what you have presented here.

Oh I fully expected this would be terrible. This is why I don't weigh in on Necrons lists these days.

Like I said my post is literally not only my first-ever-attempt at a Necrons list, but I spent like maybe 2-3 hours reading the dex and then tried to take a stab in the dark at it with my usual list building technique.

I'm sure a much more competent Necrons player using said process of thinking about secondaries as part of list construction, quadrant theory, and just general experience with the Codex will create a far superior list.

I'm just doing the usual try-and-fail-in-a-very-public-place-method to showcase the thought process.

[trantos01]

Sept 13, 2021 8:32:40 GMT -5 voodoo said:

I've had luck with 2x2 Heavy Destroyer units armed with the "good gun" and a pair of Doomstalkers backed up by a Techno w/ CCN. Put them into a patrol with a single flayer blob and make them Szarekhan for the 5++ vs. mortals, re-roll damage per unit and the 4+ deny strat. It's a good little backfield combo that does a lot of work. The warriors in there string out in the backfield to reduce deepstrike options as well as offering the Doomstalkers the ability to overwatch anything trying to get close and touch the warriors. If you can spare points for a Chrono in the same detachment, it only helps buff up the LHD's as you can really force your opponent to shoot the buffed one because they're fast enough to move out of optimal LoS.

Two groups of two HDs and two doomstalkers are too big for a patrol.  You need two patrols.  Still plunking in two patrols with Warden, cloaktek, node-tek, chronomancer (via dynastic advisors), Overlord and a group of ten warriors for each only costs 1200. Puff up the troop contingents, add wraiths for screening and scarabs for objectives/deep strike blocking and yeah, certainly possible.

---

As for the list Frosty, never take the Void Dragon when you can take the Nightbringer (ignores invuls and wound negation), Psychomancer is 'meh' compared to just about any other choice (at least the Plasmancer can deliver a steady trickle of mortal wounds), blocks of ten warriors cannot survive any sort of dedicated attacks (20+mancer support or go home), haven't mucked around with the Deathmarks but they don't have damage output.

Also Lychguard 100% need a technolmancer to keep bringing them back becuase they are not as tough as Terminators.

As for the scarabs, you use them in small groups so you can use their short stature to hide behind bushes so they don't get picked off.

Lastly this list has no anti-monster/vehicle/Superheavy capability aside fro the C'Tan and the Warlord. And I have seen people destroy a C'Tan within two turns (sometimes one).  Meanwhile the Barge will at the very best (everything hitting and wounding) do 8 damage to a target.

[Jack Shrapnel]

the two HD and doomstalkers would more likely be a spearhead as it's three heavy choices.

I ALWAYS take the void dragon over the nightbringer

sorry, rule of cool, and nightbringer's model is a teeny tiny little dude while the void dragon looks awesome. (and their output against 90% of anything is the same, especially if you want to use some CP to ignore the invuls)

but yes, everything else is absolutely correct.

[distractedcarnifex]

I like to think that my Genie in a Bottle C'Tan Shard of the Nightbringer Counts-As brings a certain class to the tabletop. You ain't never had a friend like him.

Now that I have the actual model I prefer my Djinn.

Having said all that, my Necron experience goes all the way back to Indomitus...

[voodoo]

You're right Jonathan, I had them in a Spearhead as Shannon made reference to; not a Patrol.

[Frosty the Pirate]

So after rejiggering with my awful list I threw together, I'm beginning to understand why Ctans are rapidly disappearing from lists. It's incredibly hard to adjust a list with such a huge number of points tied up in a Ctan.

Necrons appear to suffer from a similar problem I'm used to dealing with in Craftworlds somewhat, in that it's incredibly difficult to minimize the points spent on support characters to make units effective at their job.

My second attempt (while following the advice above) ended up looking similar to this:

CCB - Gauss, Hand of Phaeron, Nanoscarab Casket, Enduring Will, Warscythe
Technomancer - Hypermaterial Ablator, Voltaic Staff, Implacable Conqueror

5x Immortals - Gauss
20x Warriors - Guass
20x Warriors - Guass

10x Deathmarks
10x Lychguard - Sword/Shield
6x Skorpekh Destroyers

4x Scarab Swarms
4x Scarab Swarms

Doomsday Ark
Doomsday Ark

Honestly, I am really tempted to swap Relentlessly Expansionist for Isolationists with this list. The extra strength when double-tapping with double MWBD seems quite strong for clearing off an objective or can-opening for the combat threats.

Eternal Conquerors is such a keystone ability of Necrons it's hard to even consider building without it.

Beginning to understand the struggle.

[raceygaming]

I think in general C'tan are becoming a monster mash style of play. I do know there is a 3x C'tan with Silent King list that was doing ok for a bit that kinda work on the principle that chaos demons has been using. 4 very big deadly things that try to crash into your lines on the same turn and really limit your options to fight.

I will say that while the list I built didn't have them that the Skorpeh Destroyers are definitely great value AND have that sweet -1 to wound strat that puts them into a good tanky position while being a combat blender.

I still think that the 170 doom ark vs 180 for 3 heavy destroyers is more compelling then people seem to think.
The destroyers being a platform that doesn't let damage spill over as effectively, can move and shoot with no penalty, is infantry for cover saves, and can be technomancered back to life. They seem much stronger than d6 shots for d6 damage...that's like an average of 7 damage for 170 pts?

[trantos01]

Sept 14, 2021 15:18:18 GMT -5 raceygaming said:

I still think that the 170 doom ark vs 180 for 3 heavy destroyers is more compelling then people seem to think.
The destroyers being a platform that doesn't let damage spill over as effectively, can move and shoot with no penalty, is infantry for cover saves, and can be technomancered back to life. They seem much stronger than d6 shots for d6 damage...that's like an average of 7 damage for 170 pts?

Only way to yank back a destroyer via Technomancer is if you give him a 20 point Arkana which only works once per game. 

[Frosty the Pirate]

I certainly see the optimization of the Lokhust Destroyers, the biggest thing to me is I've come around to see the flexibility Trantos was mentioning with D-Arks.

The D-Arks have a secondary weapon that isn't terrible with Rapid Fire 5 and a pip of AP, and Blast on the main weapon means while you run the risk of being turned off by a charge, you aren't nearly useless against pure-infantry armies, which are highly popular atm. The D-Ark sports also sports Quantum Shielding (Perma-Transhuman and a 5++), and Living Metal actually means it's more resistant to bracketing than you'd think with the effective breakpoints being 6 and 2 wounds.

I definitely agree it's a very close-call that comes down to personal preference, models owned, or even target-saturation.

[Jack Shrapnel]

I personally prefer the heavy d's to D-arks as the arks have limitations upon them - cannot move to be most effective, blast so getting tagged means it's not very effective, while the heavy d's are more mobile, stable platform, can benefit from cover, and can use terrain to mitigate firing arcs easier than the giant boat.

The ark has a powerful gun for sure, and they aren't bad by any means. I just think the Heavy D's have an edge for me because of the flexibility and mobility, but that's generally how I build my lists and again, just my opinion. I know Jonathan runs arks with good success.

I'd try 9 heavy d's one day... but I'm scared it would make me then buy and paint them...lol

[trantos01]

Honestly one of the main reasons I've gone for the D-Arks is because even after the enemy monsters/vehicles are dead,it's still got the equivalent of 130 points of warriors strapped to it's sides (and in a tougher, more mobile package). And considering that infantry/objective holders are king in this edition, after the HD is out of big things to shoot, his usefulness drops a fair bit.