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Post by matthewbri on Sept 21, 2021 12:14:26 GMT -5
Thought i would post to get people's thoughts on it.
Cult of Magic
Exalted Sorceror[150](Warlord [Seeker after Shadows] Relic [Conniving Plate], Rehati[Extra Cast], Disc of Tzeentch, Doombolt, Glamour of Tzeentch, Astral Blast)
Exalted Sorceror[135](Relic [Umbralefic Crystal], Dilettante[Free Relic], Presage, Swelled by the Warp, Astral Blast)
Infernal Master[105] (Paradigm of Change[+1W +1A], Capering Imps[Remove Overwatch], Glimpse of Eternity[Free Reroll], Twist of Fate, Astral Blast)
Sorceror[90] Battle-Psyker[2+ WS, 5A], Empyric Guidance, Temporal Surge
Scarab Occult Terminators[445] x10 (Prosperine Khopesh x10, 2x Soulreaper Cannon, 2x Missile Rack, Rites of Coalescene[Heal 1 to full at start of command], Weaver of Fates)
10x Rubrics[250] (Ardent Automata[Perform actions and shoot], Soulreaper Cannon, Icon of Flame, Tzeentch's Firestorm, Astral Blast]
10x Rubrics[279] (9x Warpflamers, 1x Hand Warpflamer, Icon of Flame, Pyric Flux, Astral Blast)
5x Rubrics[121] (1x Warpflamer, Icon of Flame, Gaze of Hate, Astral Blast)
Thousand Sons Sicaran Venator[235](Lascannons, Combi-Bolter, Hellforged Missile)
Thousand Sons Sicaran [180]
1997 points total
Basically:
Rubrics for board control while the terminators deepstrike or walk up with temporal surge(warptime). Second sorc makes a firebase with the Sicarans giving them buffs, and slinging the termanitors if need be.
Only thing i'm thinking of doing is maybe dropping a sicaran for more sorcerors, but the list already generates 19 Cabal points. But i also have the models for 4 sorcs, so, maybe. Only other thing i can think of is maybe splitting the big rubric squad up, but then i'm not sure if ardent is worth putting on only 5 dudes.
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Sept 21, 2021 12:39:49 GMT -5
I'd definitely keep both Sicaran's, you've got a TON of psychic domination already and more Sorcs at this point probably is just diminishing returns.
I would definitely keep the large 10 man of rubrics with the Ardent together, but you could possibly consider breaking up the Warpflamer rubrics into 2x5 if you found yourself struggling with your elite-footprint or in games with 6 objectives.
Have you played any games with this list yet? If so what are you thinking for Secondaries?
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Post by artonas on Sept 21, 2021 13:16:08 GMT -5
The Infernal master can't take legion command as they are limited to exalted, sorcerers and unit champs of rubrics/SOT.
5 man rubrics with bolters are better then 10 man squads as you can for almost the same cost of 10 man squad gets you 2 casters vs 1. Also gives you more board presence and allows you to maybe do a psychic action/ regular action. You should spend the 1CP to get that sorcerer in the flamer unit the relic force stave Incandaeum, that's a heavy warpflamer/stave. It won't be effected by Pyric Flux but its already S5 AP -2 and saves you the points on the flame pistol.
I don't know much about the Sicarans these days but they are good with TSONS just cause they get that 5++. Are you not taking any extra heavy bolters on the regular version?
I would also not recommend Deepstriking the terminators as they have a big foot print. I would warptime them up the table and throw on the 4++ and -1 to hit, if they do need to get across the table use the crystal to get them where they need to go.
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Post by matthewbri on Sept 21, 2021 13:58:43 GMT -5
The Infernal master can't take legion command as they are limited to exalted, sorcerers and unit champs of rubrics/SOT. 5 man rubrics with bolters are better then 10 man squads as you can for almost the same cost of 10 man squad gets you 2 casters vs 1. Also gives you more board presence and allows you to maybe do a psychic action/ regular action. You should spend the 1CP to get that sorcerer in the flamer unit the relic force stave Incandaeum, that's a heavy warpflamer/stave. It won't be effected by Pyric Flux but its already S5 AP -2 and saves you the points on the flame pistol. I don't know much about the Sicarans these days but they are good with TSONS just cause they get that 5++. Are you not taking any extra heavy bolters on the regular version? I would also not recommend Deepstriking the terminators as they have a big foot print. I would warptime them up the table and throw on the 4++ and -1 to hit, if they do need to get across the table use the crystal to get them where they need to go. Huh, the warhammer app let me do it. Guess i'll Incandaeum the one guy, though i did already build him with the flamer. No extra heavy bolters as i didn't have the points, i'll see if i can scrounge them. I'd definitely keep both Sicaran's, you've got a TON of psychic domination already and more Sorcs at this point probably is just diminishing returns. I would definitely keep the large 10 man of rubrics with the Ardent together, but you could possibly consider breaking up the Warpflamer rubrics into 2x5 if you found yourself struggling with your elite-footprint or in games with 6 objectives. Have you played any games with this list yet? If so what are you thinking for Secondaries? Will probably break the flamers up, though forward deploying 10 of them seems spicy. Secondaries would be burn empires and warp ritaul, then probably mission/opponent specific(i.e. wrath of magnus, stranglehold ect) |
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Post by artonas on Sept 21, 2021 14:26:21 GMT -5
Huh, the warhammer app let me do it. Guess i'll Incandaeum the one guy, though i did already build him with the flamer. No extra heavy bolters as i didn't have the points, i'll see if i can scrounge them. Well Its says that paradigm of change is for exalted sorcerers only. Also I wouldn't bother removing the flame pistol unless you really wanted to. I don't know if taking 2 heavy bolters is worth it as it makes the tank pretty pricy. Be careful of burn empires as it doesn't get completed till your next command phase, so it can be stopped though you can do multiple objectives at once. |
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Sept 21, 2021 14:33:54 GMT -5
Secondaries would be burn empires and warp ritaul, then probably mission/opponent specific(i.e. wrath of magnus, stranglehold ect) You can only take 1 Codex secondary in a game, no matter the category separation. Which means if you take Burn Empires and Warp Ritual you have to take an Eternal-War/GT-2021 secondary from Battlefield Supremacy, No Mercy No Respite, Purge the Enemy, or a mission-specific one. Given your highly elite army footprint, I'd strongly recommend against Engage and/or Stranglehold and going for a kill secondary such as Grind Them Down since you have very few-elite units and it will be hard for opponent to kill more units than you on most turns, or against an appropriate opponent swapping Burn Empires out for ROD or Banners then picking up Wrath of Magnus as an upgrade. Psychic Interrogation also seems like a strong pick for TSons as with your plethora of Character Psykers it should be fairly easy to score it at least a few times in scenarios where you don't want to be in the center of the battlefield. Summarized Suggestion: Take Warp Ritual normally -> Swap for Psychic Interrogation if you don't want to be in the center Take Grind Them Down normally -> Swap for Wrath of Magnus when possible Take Burn Empires normally -> Swap for ROD or Banners when upgrading to Wrath of Magnus |
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Post by raceygaming on Sept 21, 2021 15:09:50 GMT -5
Secondaries would be burn empires and warp ritaul, then probably mission/opponent specific(i.e. wrath of magnus, stranglehold ect) You can only take 1 Codex secondary in a game, no matter the category separation. Which means if you take Burn Empires and Warp Ritual you have to take an Eternal-War/GT-2021 secondary from Battlefield Supremacy, No Mercy No Respite, Purge the Enemy, or a mission-specific one. Given your highly elite army footprint, I'd strongly recommend against Engage and/or Stranglehold and going for a kill secondary such as Grind Them Down since you have very few-elite units and it will be hard for opponent to kill more units than you on most turns, or against an appropriate opponent swapping Burn Empires out for ROD or Banners then picking up Wrath of Magnus as an upgrade. Psychic Interrogation also seems like a strong pick for TSons as with your plethora of Character Psykers it should be fairly easy to score it at least a few times in scenarios where you don't want to be in the center of the battlefield. Summarized Suggestion: Warp Ritual -> Swap for Psychic Interrogation if you don't want to be in the center Grind Them Down -> Swap for Wrath of Magnus when possible Burn Empires -> Swap for ROD or Banners when upgrading to Wrath of Magnus Can I ask where it says only one codex secondary? I have seen this come up before but have never seen it in writing, as a rule. |
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Post by voodoo on Sept 21, 2021 15:14:49 GMT -5
I like it, I'd keep one large brick of rubrics, but break the others into MSU like Danny said; but arm them with bolters for the extra range and a soulreaper because... Soulreaper. For 4 points more than the flamer, it's the DRASTICALLY superior weapon 9/10 times.
Danny is also correct on the Legion Command. While it'd be freaking sweet to give an Infernal Master an ability, it specifically calls out who can take what. I'd give one Rehati all day if I could to bring them up to the level of an exalted in casting output.
Interrogation is freaking terrible, you want all of your casters casting. The only action you want anyone taking is Echoes From the Warp to gain a CP each turn. You'll have enough eyes on literally any part of the board to make good use of Warp Sight as well, and with that many Cabal Points, you'll really be able to "spread the love" so to speak and do some interesting stuff.
The only piece I'm not 100% on is the Sicarans. Yes, they'll have a baked in 5++, and yes they're a solid tank that I firmly believe in; (hell, I own THREE after all!) but I'm not sold that they're better than other in-codex options. The book is SO new and has SO many options, there's lots and lots to test to find lists that I like and that "work". I do think you're on the right track though. Test it, see if you like it and move from there. Lists can be "net-perfect"; but if they don't work the way your brain plays, then it's not any good. I'm a big proponent of the list needs to fit the general, not the other way around.
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Sept 21, 2021 15:14:51 GMT -5
Can I ask where it says only one codex secondary? I have seen this come up before but have never seen it in writing, as a rule. From the rules section about when you are allowed to use Chapter Approved Secondary Objectives. Example text from Thousand Sons enclosed below. The exception to this are Space Marine Expansion books (SW, BA, DA, BT) who by honoring both the Adeptus Astartes keyword restriction AND their subfaction keyword restriction can gain both a SM secondary AND a Subfaction secondary. However it's still specifically one from each list, and you still have to honor the one from each category restriction as well. |
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 21, 2021 15:17:35 GMT -5
It's in all the new army books at the top of where you choose book secondaries. Says you may only select one.
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Post by voodoo on Sept 21, 2021 15:23:34 GMT -5
You can only take 1 Codex secondary in a game, no matter the category separation. Which means if you take Burn Empires and Warp Ritual you have to take an Eternal-War/GT-2021 secondary from Battlefield Supremacy, No Mercy No Respite, Purge the Enemy, or a mission-specific one. Can I ask where it says only one codex secondary? I have seen this come up before but have never seen it in writing, as a rule. I looked at the TSon dex and it says in the wording you "select one of them to be from the Thousand Sons secondary objectives listed below." So while it doesn't explicitly say you can't select more than one, it heavily implies that with the "select one" wording in the initial sentence. |
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 21, 2021 16:33:12 GMT -5
it says you may select one of them to be a faction secondary in every codex I own in 9th... that is pretty clear... just one.
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Post by raceygaming on Sept 21, 2021 16:45:00 GMT -5
Ah ya I and looked at wording and it does say that in fact I always assumed since so many marines can take Oath and X that it wasn't the case but of course Oath is space marine while X is space wolves, blood angle, dark angles etc. So you get to double dip.
Well maybe once everyone has a code they will cut of non space marines from taking oath as well.
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Post by raceygaming on Sept 21, 2021 16:53:49 GMT -5
Looking at the List I like the Core of it. Not sure what the Sicarans brings to the table bring, T. Sons do look like they need some 36" + fire power. The list looks really deadly at the 24" and closer mark.
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Post by matthewbri on Sept 21, 2021 19:12:47 GMT -5
About 90% of the allure of the Sicarians is they look cool and i have the STLs to print them with the resin printer.
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