new edition of dnd

[LizardTau]

So i went onto the dndinsider site, like it do once in a while to see if there are any interesting articles and well you can sign up to play test a new edition. I threw my email in.

It says that they wont start any play testing till september. I think its a little soon for a new edition, like i only started playing dnd when 4th came out like 3 years ago or less (stupid memory)

[Jack Shrapnel]

Well unfortuantely Wizards of the Coast is about as predictable as Games Workshops in alot of respects. Wizards has this terrible habit (ever since 2nd edition) of putting out far too much product for an edition far too quickly... which leads to HUGE issues of game balance and things spiraling out of control.

this edition they got a ton of negative backlash for how completely they revamped the system...a lot of longtime DND players were NOT happy with 4th... they've tried corrections with various errata books, supplements, and the whole essentials (I know very little about essentials, but as far as it was explained to me it's kind of like a 4.5 system - not quite 4th, but kind of where they were looking at heading with the system, and easier for new players)

I've played D&D for 31 years.... (yep, I'm that old) I've played at least once a week for the vast majority of that time.... Drove to Gencon (from Atikokan!) four times to play D&D there, gaming the whole way down and back in the car...Fourth edition actually made me far less interested in D&D... and as I didn't keep up with buying books and reading the material voraciously like I used to do, I found myself slipping further and further behind on how the system works. I still play weekly, but because I didn't keep up with the latest deluge of material I fell far behind the curve to the point where I only play now (I used to DM very regularly, make my own campaign settings etc.) and only in one game, so have less and less idea of how to "optimize" characters, or how various rules interact now with one another.

One thing that really has been growing in popularity over the last several years is the whole concept of optimizing your character to the point of peak efficiency and power, to pull off pretty ridiculous combos etc. (Wizards has a whole forum section on it actually). I really have disliked how the system has headed in this way... I play D&D to roleplay the character... not roll dice and roll over every monster with ease.

I like struggle, danger, roles and characters... I like flawed characters that aren't invincible... with every edition of D&D, it heads away from that... and my interest wanes further... Some of the best D&D stories I remember are the crazy ones... the d4 hp wizards at level 1 with one spell... smuggling a party member past guards in a bag of holding and forgetting how much air was in one... fireball being just as deadly to your party as the monsters... etc. etc.

I'm one of those old dinosaur D&D players though that Wizards unfortunately doesn't market their system to. I upgraded to 3rd... then 3.5.... then 4th.... sigh... I just don't know if I care enough to see what they're planning on doing to my beloved game again... It's already a little too close to magic the gathering for my liking....

hmmm that wasn't supposed to be a rant or anything... kind of rambled on there... us old dinos do that from time to time

[nekekami]

Play Pathfinder, problem solved right there.

[Jack Shrapnel]

Or I could play AD&D first ed..... I don't necessarily see 3.5 as the pinnacle of games systems either

I'm not saying I won't play D&D, I'm just putting my thoughts out there on the pattern I see Wizards doing repeatedly... I'm sure it makes them money... which is probably why they do it still... and these "restarts" have been part of the game since the blue box... I expect them now as sure as I expect the next marine codex from GW...

[LizardTau]

yeah, i wanted to play 3.5 but couldnt get anyone together, i first started playing with 4th ed, and i thought it was ok but ya as you said i dont want to be the guy that had to min max my character every level i like to play a theme fun or funny character. I actually about the ad&d core book, and i have the 3.5 core books as well as my 4th books.

I will look at the new system before i play it.

[Canex]

Their formal announcement allows us to comment on a few noteworthy points when looking back at the last 3+ years of 4th edition and assessing whether or not D&D finds a lasting place in our collective roleplaying future.

Without saying so directly, WotC's statement acknowledged the resistance they encountered following the release of 4th edition, and particularly the lack of focus and support demonstrated by the company. I refer most explicitly to the utter lack of communication with the game's fans. After all, does anyone remember their promises of computer-related support tied to the release of the game, including character portrait capability? It took a very long time for Wizards to confirm that support was not forthcoming.

What resulted can only be described as a schism of monumental proportions. Sure, the D&D community has always had proponents of the various editions, campaign settings, and even modules, but it always had remained identifiably D&D-specific. Now, we have multiple distinct communities that no longer necessarily relate in the same way. Yes, we might all be roleplayers but there are now supporters of 4th edition, 3rd, Pathfinder, etc, who not just support their particular version, but due to the huge gaps created between them by Wizards, have even occasionally shown actual animosity towards each other.

Therefore, the obvious task for Wizards with 5th edition is clear: reunite the community under the once-familiar banner of Dungeons & Dragons.

---

Based on the currently available information summarized in their mission statement linked at the top, I can't help but be concerned for the success of 5th's development. If they want everyone's input, they'll get it, and if they take it seriously, they'll end up with the continuation of a fragmented community.

Imho, at its heart, D&D is a game of imagination. Fundamentally based on paper, pencils, and dice, if D&D tries to please the various modern splinter communities (LARPing, MMOs, miniatures) then it simply won't be a focused RPG. Those dedicated communities don't need extra attention; no matter what ruleset they're provided with, those sufficiently interested and passionate will find a way to adopt 5th edition to their needs. There isn't any need to cater specifically to them. D&D needs to be a traditional RPG first and foremost.

The new edition also needs to remember that D&D doesn't only occur in dungeons, nor does it need to dumb itself down. Young people for several generations now have played every edition with verve and dedication, no matter the ruleset. Again, 5th has to remember that its players' imaginations are going to be what drives the games they play. As an example, 4th offered rules that were entirely appropriate for dungeon crawling but began to fall apart when the adventures moved outside. Just look at weapon ranges to see how ridiculous the ruleset really was.

What's the answer? Basic rules and an intelligent GM are all a successful game requires. Give us the credit we deserve; we don't need the game to tell us that a given ability shifts us 15 feet. Allow players to describe their actions and GMs the leeway to describe the results. This is pretty simple stuff that somehow got lost somewhere along the way and it's a damned shame.

If the Wizards development team remembers this, I think we'll end up with a game that we'll all be familiar with and would be universally willing to love again. They've got a lot to prove and a lot of damage to undo, however. My advice is as follows: remember who your players are. The tabletop community is a niche demographic so no matter how much you would like to, it's not going to be the mainstream public you're appealing to. Wizards, you can't sell the game to everyone... but if you don't offer a focused product, you won't sell it to anyone. Remember who you are, Wizards, you own the preeminent RPG brand in the world. Be proud of it. Be proud of your players and embrace where this all began. Don't let us down again.

[Jack Shrapnel]

well said Jon....

[LizardTau]

yeah for sure. I know i was looking forward to the online build a dungeons and have your friends come play it as you dm them online since i have some friends which we tried to play every second weekend but stuff got in the way. They never told anyone they canceled it but it came up in a rule of three (three questions a week to the dnd staff) and they said they scraped it because fans wanted more content not the online stuff.

[Canex]

Wizards of the Coast was represented at PAX East this year and talked about the upcoming D&D Next / 5th Edition.

Although the two panelists said a lot of the things I was hoping to hear, WotC has their work cut out for them to earn back my trust and more importantly for them, my money. As I understand it presently, early game testing will be open to the public later this month, the details which you can find somewhere here.