Post by thesanityassassin on Dec 10, 2012 14:11:58 GMT -5
Alright, the tournament has passed us by, and with it my first games with the White Scars. Which means that it's now time to analyze the list. What went right? What went wrong? What was missing?
I won't lie, I'm not usually a big list analyzer. I don't tend to do math beyond adding up points when building lists. I don't tend to listen to the internet about what's good and bad. I read the codex, weigh a balance in my head between fluff and competition and go. My Eldar lists have generally been unorthodox, but they usually end up working out simply because I play them enough to get to know them. That said, it would be silly not to look at the performance of something new, particularly given the new set up of the edition. So with that said, let's take a look:
What Worked?
Well, the big bike squads were pretty damn solid. Fast, tough and packing some reliable firepower, they're even pretty decent in assault between T5 and Hammer of Wrath. I wasn't intending to charge with them that much, but they seemed to work pretty well at getting stuck in combat through the enemy shooting phase and then freeing themselves up again. They also did extremely well going after objectives, as they were fast enough to get up the table, take out targets and retreat to home objectives. I tried putting them in combat squads once, and while it didn't work in that game (which was a mess before it started), I can see nice utility in terms of being able to position weapons in different groups.
The Command Squad and Captain were a wrecking ball, which surprised me a bit, given how much I thought they would be a points sink. T5 with Storm Shields and FNP is rough to deal with, and on a captain with Artifacer it gets even nastier. Over the course of the tourney they took out a Broadside Team and Stealth Suit team (After eating a TON of Tau ap1 shooting), a Mawloc, Trygon and Hive Tyrant, 2 and a half Raider Squads (including Raiders) and a Ravager, and likely would have got another one if Randy hadn't failed a morale check and denied me the charge. Definitely keeping them around at least for now.
The Land Speeders and Storm Talon were fantastic coming in together in a storm of krak missiles and assault cannon fire, with the heavy flamers also contributing to tear apart an enemy squad that had closed to my board edge. Despite being fragile and expensive, the Speeders seemed to be able to use speed and range to keep themself safe, and the Talon also was able to vector several attack runs in a row. I never ran into serious anti-air though, so I don't know how that would affect his utility.
The smaller bike squad also did alright, being able to follow one of the bigger squads to deliver the meltas.
What Didn't Work:
The Predator. He just...never did anything. I think he might have taken a hull point from a Raider with his HK missile, but generally he was just a lump. I thought that for the really cheap cost it might have been worth having him on the table, especially if Big Guns Never Tire shows up, but the experiment just didn't pan out. A single Autocannon is useless enough that he didn't even draw fire. It seems like I need to either take three or none if I'm going to run them at 60 points.
Assault Marines. They're fluffy, and I like the look of them, but they just didn't seem to do anything but die. Admittedly that might have something to do with the 15 I rolled against the Doom the first time. The first game they had decent success, gutting a unit of Kroot, but otherwise they were a pretty solid fail. For a unit whose job is close combat, they just aren't very good at it. I'm trying to decide whether I completely remove them or replace the sarge's storm shield (which never helped) with a couple flamers in the unit. The ability to smoke things out of cover, which I struggled with, might be a big help. That said, if I drop them, they could be replaced with a ton of stuff.....two or more Land Speeders depending on build, More Preds, a couple Vindicators or Whirlwinds to help with anti-horde, another struggle, or a unit of tac marines in a pod, which I could have used a number of times in the tourney to much better effect than the assault marines.
Dealing with hordes. The second game I played against like 100 Tyranids and it just did not go well. I didn't have enough ability to clear that amount of fearless stuff off the table, and they quickly took away my mobility and hemmed me in. I definitely need some kind of horde killing presence, be it flamers or blasts or whatever.
Poison. That was killer for the T5 bikes, and I got lucky enough to face it twice. Add it on to the horde of Nids and that game looked almost unwinnable. It was a bit better against the Dark Eldar as I was able to close and take them out of the transports, then get in and deal with them before the shooting did too much damage, though the overwatch hurt. I think I could have taken that last one had I been a bit more aggressive on my first turn.
What to do??
So assuming I drop the Pred and assault marines I'll have 310 points to play with. That's not an insignificant amount for Marines. In fact, it could get me another one of my big bike squads with a heavy bolter AB instead of a melta. Or a pair of Vindicators and Whirlwind, or 2 more Land Speeders and a Vindi....What to do what to do? Boy I wish I could let myself take Dreads...and no, I won't, no matter how useful they might be!
I won't lie, I'm not usually a big list analyzer. I don't tend to do math beyond adding up points when building lists. I don't tend to listen to the internet about what's good and bad. I read the codex, weigh a balance in my head between fluff and competition and go. My Eldar lists have generally been unorthodox, but they usually end up working out simply because I play them enough to get to know them. That said, it would be silly not to look at the performance of something new, particularly given the new set up of the edition. So with that said, let's take a look:
What Worked?
Well, the big bike squads were pretty damn solid. Fast, tough and packing some reliable firepower, they're even pretty decent in assault between T5 and Hammer of Wrath. I wasn't intending to charge with them that much, but they seemed to work pretty well at getting stuck in combat through the enemy shooting phase and then freeing themselves up again. They also did extremely well going after objectives, as they were fast enough to get up the table, take out targets and retreat to home objectives. I tried putting them in combat squads once, and while it didn't work in that game (which was a mess before it started), I can see nice utility in terms of being able to position weapons in different groups.
The Command Squad and Captain were a wrecking ball, which surprised me a bit, given how much I thought they would be a points sink. T5 with Storm Shields and FNP is rough to deal with, and on a captain with Artifacer it gets even nastier. Over the course of the tourney they took out a Broadside Team and Stealth Suit team (After eating a TON of Tau ap1 shooting), a Mawloc, Trygon and Hive Tyrant, 2 and a half Raider Squads (including Raiders) and a Ravager, and likely would have got another one if Randy hadn't failed a morale check and denied me the charge. Definitely keeping them around at least for now.
The Land Speeders and Storm Talon were fantastic coming in together in a storm of krak missiles and assault cannon fire, with the heavy flamers also contributing to tear apart an enemy squad that had closed to my board edge. Despite being fragile and expensive, the Speeders seemed to be able to use speed and range to keep themself safe, and the Talon also was able to vector several attack runs in a row. I never ran into serious anti-air though, so I don't know how that would affect his utility.
The smaller bike squad also did alright, being able to follow one of the bigger squads to deliver the meltas.
What Didn't Work:
The Predator. He just...never did anything. I think he might have taken a hull point from a Raider with his HK missile, but generally he was just a lump. I thought that for the really cheap cost it might have been worth having him on the table, especially if Big Guns Never Tire shows up, but the experiment just didn't pan out. A single Autocannon is useless enough that he didn't even draw fire. It seems like I need to either take three or none if I'm going to run them at 60 points.
Assault Marines. They're fluffy, and I like the look of them, but they just didn't seem to do anything but die. Admittedly that might have something to do with the 15 I rolled against the Doom the first time. The first game they had decent success, gutting a unit of Kroot, but otherwise they were a pretty solid fail. For a unit whose job is close combat, they just aren't very good at it. I'm trying to decide whether I completely remove them or replace the sarge's storm shield (which never helped) with a couple flamers in the unit. The ability to smoke things out of cover, which I struggled with, might be a big help. That said, if I drop them, they could be replaced with a ton of stuff.....two or more Land Speeders depending on build, More Preds, a couple Vindicators or Whirlwinds to help with anti-horde, another struggle, or a unit of tac marines in a pod, which I could have used a number of times in the tourney to much better effect than the assault marines.
Dealing with hordes. The second game I played against like 100 Tyranids and it just did not go well. I didn't have enough ability to clear that amount of fearless stuff off the table, and they quickly took away my mobility and hemmed me in. I definitely need some kind of horde killing presence, be it flamers or blasts or whatever.
Poison. That was killer for the T5 bikes, and I got lucky enough to face it twice. Add it on to the horde of Nids and that game looked almost unwinnable. It was a bit better against the Dark Eldar as I was able to close and take them out of the transports, then get in and deal with them before the shooting did too much damage, though the overwatch hurt. I think I could have taken that last one had I been a bit more aggressive on my first turn.
What to do??
So assuming I drop the Pred and assault marines I'll have 310 points to play with. That's not an insignificant amount for Marines. In fact, it could get me another one of my big bike squads with a heavy bolter AB instead of a melta. Or a pair of Vindicators and Whirlwind, or 2 more Land Speeders and a Vindi....What to do what to do? Boy I wish I could let myself take Dreads...and no, I won't, no matter how useful they might be!
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