Dark Angels 1850 Lists

[coymastermikhail]

Hey all. As I will be back in the middle of summer, I will likely be seeing you guys more often starting around early Sept (moving from Quebec to Trenton, need to buy a house, etc.) As is, I got the new DA Codex sent out to me (courtesy of the girlfriend) and have been toying around with some lists. I have made them in word because the internet here is almost intolerably slow, and will attach them. If I am not mistaken, the normal game size at Nexus is still 1850pts right? I will attach here the 3 lists (one each for deathwing, ravenwing, greenwing) and feel free to rip them apart as you see fit.

Thanks

[coymastermikhail]

And one more that I consider to be more competitive for tournaments and the like.

[Jack Shrapnel]

FYI - locally we've been playing 6th edition at 2,000 points, mainly because games go much faster now... and people want to use all their cool toys

Can't really comment on the DA lists as I'm not too familiar with them unfortunately...

[nekekami]

Yeah, like Shannon said, 2k is the norm now.

As for the lists, I can pretty much pick them apart all individually. There was so many shifts in the play of the army, that a lot of people really didn't appreciate it, and then on the other hand, a lot of the old DA players liked to see our core rules come back from 3rd and before. And like everything, you can't make everyone happy.

My only real piece of advice about the 6th ed Codex is this:

"Forget about 5th ed."

[coymastermikhail]

Hey sorry about that, forgot about the restrictions on posting points, etc. My lists tend to be overly organized (a little bit of OCD on my part). Here is the essence of each list.

DEATHWING

HQ
Belial (SB/SofS)

TROOPS
1 - 10x DW Term SB/PF, 1 AC, 1 CML
2 - 5x DW Term TH/SS, 1 CML
3 - 5x DW Term TH/SS, 1 CML
4 - 5x DW Term SB/PF, 1 PC

ELITES
1 - VEN Dreadnought with TLLC and ML
2 - VEN Dreadnought with AC, PF with HF in Drop Pod
3 - 5x DW Knights
For 2000 on the nose

[coymastermikhail]

Carrying On

RAVENWING

HQ
1 - Sammael on Jetbike
2 - RW Command Squad with Champion, Standard of Devastation and 1x GL

TROOPS
1 - 6x RW Bikers, 1 Vet Sgt, 2x MG, 1x AB with MM, 1x LS with MM and TML
2 - 6x RW Bikers, 1 Vet Sgt, 2x PG, 1x AB with MM, 1x LS with MM and TML
3 - 6x RW Bikers, 1 AB with HB, 1x LS with AC and HB

FAST ATTACK
1 - RW Black Knights - 6x Knights, 2x GL
2 - RW Dark Shroud - AC
3 - RW Dark Talon - 2x Hurricane Bolters, Rift Cannon, Stasis Bomb

HEAVY SUPPORT
1 - LS Vengeance with AC and Plasma Storm Battery

2000

[coymastermikhail]

Carrying On

GREENWING

HQ
1 - Interrogator-Chaplain BP, Crozius
2 - Librarian - FW, BP, Conv Field
3 - Command Squad - 1x Champ, 1x Apoth, 1x Revered Standard, 2x BP & PW in Razorback TLHB

ELITES
1 - Coy Vets - Sgt with BP & CCW, 3x Combi-Plasma, 2x PG, 4x BP & CCW in Drop Pod

TROOPS
1 - 10x Marines, Vet Sgt BP&CCW, 1x PC, 1x PG in Rhino
2 - 10x Marines, Vet Sgt with BP&CCW, 1x PG, 1xML (with Flak)in Rhino
3 - 10x Marines, Vet Sgt with BP&CCW, 1x MG in Drop Pod
4 - 10x Marines, Vet Sgt with BP&CCW, 1x Flamer in Drop Pod

FAST ATTACK
1 - Assault Squad - 6x Marines, Sgt with Meltabombs

HEAVY SUPPORT
1 - Pred - Autocannon, HBs
2 - Whirlwind
3 - Vindicator with Siege Shield

FORTIFICATIONS
ADL with LC

1999

[coymastermikhail]

And just because it would be funny

Rites of Initiation - 10th Coy

HQ
1 - Chaplain - BP, Crozius
2 - Command Squad - 1x Coy Standard, 1x Apoth, 1x Champ, 1x Flamer, 1x BP&CCW

TROOPS
1 - 10x Scouts, Vet Sgt, Camo Cloaks, SR, 1x ML (with Flak)
2 - 10x Scouts, Vet Sgt with meltabomb, Camo Cloaks, SR, 1x ML (with Flak)
3 - 10x Scouts, Vet Sgt with BP&PW and meltabomb, Camo Cloaks, BP&CCW
4 - 10x Scouts, Vet Sgt with Bolter, Meltabomb, Camo Cloaks, Bolters, 1x HB
5 - 10x Scouts, Vet Sgt with Meltabombs, Camo Cloaks, Shotguns
6 - 10x Marines, Vet sgt with BP&CCW, 1x PG, 1x PC

FAST ATTACK
1 - Assault Squad - 10x Marines, Vet Sgt with PP, PW, Meltabombs, 2x PP

HEAVY SUPPORT
1 - Dev Squad - 9x Marines, Vet Sgt with Combi-Plasma, 4x LC
2 - Dev Squad - 10x Marines, Vet Sgt with Combi-Plasma, 4x ML (including Flak)

1999

[coymastermikhail]

@ Nekekami

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, my experience is minimal. As such the only real tip I have been given on the DA is "Don't take the Nephilim", which is a shame as I love the model.

[nekekami]

The Nephalim is is awesome. I use one in every list, and if I could shoehorn in a second, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

You have a bunch of lists there, so in an effort to keep this somewhat constructive, pick one that you'd like to play/see yourself playing regularly, and we can get a dialogue rolling on it.

[coymastermikhail]

I would likely use the ravenwing list the most, as I love the models, though I feel that the Greenwing list is most balanced. In an effort to avoid deathwing spam, I would use these 2 lists for the most part.

If possible, could you give me assistance with both the GREENWING and RAVENWING lists.

[canadianguy]

Hi and welcome.
Ravenwing I feel you will want more tires on the ground. I haven't seen either the talon or vengeance in action. I wouldn't bother with the HB options as with such a mobile army and the banner of devastation just getting more bolters in range of the banner should be a bit more of a focus along those same lines I think another unit of RWB and RWK would add more plasma in a more survivable way than the vengeance.
With fliers you have to consider how many turns will they be on the board and is what they do going to be worth that ltd time. Yes that stasis bomb can reek havoc but will it be where you want it when you want it and then is it worth that many points I am not convinced.
All said I would add:
Troops:
4- 6 x RW Bikers, 1 Vet Sgt, 2x MG, 1x AB with MM, 1x LS with MM and TML
Unit 3 I would definitely switch the AB to MM from HB and the speeder I think could be left the way it is.
Squeeze in as many more RWK as you can they are really an amazing unit!
and I would drop the talon and the vengeance.
Ravenwing is really effective this edition!
Tried it out 3 times and pretty much tabled a DA greenwing, Chaos Marines and soundly beat a standard SOB list.
My list didn't have the shroud as well and had 2 RWK units.

[coymastermikhail]

Ok. I get the more troops on the ground point. How is the current meta in regards to flyers. I just can't help but thinking that having no air dedicated air defence would leave me open to getting heldrake'd every other turn or so, and with the small size of the units, it wouldn't be long until I found myself in big trouble. Or do you think the amount of AC shots and the ike that the speeders can put out would deal with it?

[nekekami]

I can't really argue with what's sandwiched into the above post there, as it's all sound advice. I also have a pure Ravenwing force, which hasn't seen much play in 6th (I'm of the opinion that Greenwing and Deathwing are much more viable as a whole, but that's an argument for another time) because of general list testing with the codex.

So let's round it all off here.

Sammael is the obvious auto include, and the CS is as well, if you're going for that Devastation bolter alpha. The Black Knights as well, not much to change there.

More troop bikes for sure. For scoring units, you want 4 min, depending on your army. Some can get away with less, but since objectives are so central to 6th, you need a good solid core, and 18 bikes really won't cut it. Also, you want to max out your potential with that Banner, as these bikes are the only reason you take it.

The setup you have is good. It's easy to run Melta on your attack squadrons now, because of plasma talons on the RWK and Command squad. The grenade launchers on the bikes are also amazing for that drop in toughness, so you can go about murdering characters along with their squads. Always, always remember to roll those shots from your characters separately as to not forget about Precision Shooting - having that chance to knock out a -1T IC with your Huntsmaster's plasma talon is just hilarious.

Now, as to the rest. I'm not a huge fan of the single-model units, but unlike in 4th and 5th, these are not a waste of points anymore. If you want them, take them, but I'd say nay for use of points elsewhere, or just as a filler. At the very least, I'd only bring Speeders as squadrons - trust me on this, it's not a huge deal right now, but you'll be seeing a lot more Split Fire USRs coming in the future, and unless you've got Dark Eldar luck, your single speeders 5+ cover isn't gonna save you. The one problem with the 6th ed. Ravenwing is the lack of Elite support, mainly in the form of the Black Knights being Fast Attack, and so not having a ton of ForceOrg slots to play with.

The Dark Talon as well, is something that I was ultimately let down by. It's not bad but as the "anti-infantry" flyer, it's really just a supporting unit. The Rift Cannon sucks aside from Blind, which can save you from some shooting, and it's claim to fame doesn't do squat on it's own. However, speaking of, what that stasis bomb is good for is a situational one-shot, anti-deathstar weapon. Obviously it's not going to affect anything slower than you much at all, and in a Ravenwing army if you're planning an assault, things have either gone completely awry or you're just showing off. Verdict is; Take the Nephalim, imo. Keep the Lascannon on it, and it does it's anti-vehicle/flyer role like anything else with a TLLC well enough, and because it has Strafing Run (hello, why doesn't the Dark Talon have this instead?) it does anti-infantry better than it's cousin. The main use for it though, in a Ravenwing army is to keep other Flyers off your back, of which most of your force can't do much about, unless you're lucky with plasma shooting.

The Darkshroud as well is a strange thing, but at least it's meant to be a support unit, but I'm not sold on it either. It does two things, one of which again, is about assaulting, and even then it's effect is so small that it's barely worth noting (and does nothing against Fearless or Stubborn, or the like, another strike against it). So, now you're talking about 100 points for a FA slot (which, noted, we don't have lots of) that's bringing an AC and a 6" stealth bubble, which begs to be templated. Some people will say it's won games, others will simply laugh at you, but it's your call. I'd say don't do it, and again, save the points.

The footnote here is the Vengeance. I like it, I think it's cool, but I'd never use one. If it didn't have Gets Hot! or if it's 3 shots were Blast, I'd probably change my mind, but it's just way too fragile for it's points. I just can't condone it's use in anything resembling a serious game.

So, options! Well, we have a few if you cut some of those points out. Number one on my list would be a Divination Libby biker, for obvious reasons. Prescience is OP with all that Plasma, make him mastery 2, and every power on that list would make whoever he's with even scarier.

As above there, you could do more Ravenwing Knights. More plasma is never bad.

Typhoon speeder squadrons are good, always have been.

Double up on Flyers.

In the end, play around with it, you'll find what you like.

[coymastermikhail]

OK round 2

HQ
1- Sammael on Jetbike (200)
2 - Librarian on Bike. Mastery Level 2, (100)
3 - RW Command Squad with Standard of Devastation and 1x GL (185)

TROOPS
1 - 6x RW Bikers, 1 Vet Sgt, 2x MG, 1x AB with MM (246)
2 - 6x RW Bikers, 1 Vet Sgt, 2x MG, 1x AB with MM (246)
3 - 6x RW Bikers, 1 Vet Sgt, 2x Flamers, 1x LS with HB and AC (306)
4 - 6x RW Bikers

FAST ATTACK
1 - 6x Black Knights, 2x GL (252)
2 - 2x LS with MM and TML (170)
2 - 1x Nephilim, TLLC, TLHB, 6 blacksword missiles (180)

2001

Wow - the points climb fast. Any idea how to get my hands on a librarian on a bike? I know I'll have to convert it, but there seen to be no real multi-piece librarians available. Any ideas?