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Post by canadianguy on Jul 30, 2013 18:30:29 GMT -5
So just to clarify its max 5 dice except for gobo with mushroom. So no no dark elf sacrificing for a 6 th no Lizardman bonus die to 6 etc.
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Post by stonecutter on Jul 30, 2013 18:35:41 GMT -5
So just to clarify its max 5 dice except for gobo with mushroom. So no no dark elf sacrificing for a 6 th no Lizardman bonus die to 6 etc. Correct
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Post by thesanityassassin on Jul 30, 2013 22:26:57 GMT -5
I know I've been out of the game for a while, but the thing that always gets me regarding surviving spells like Dwellers is ward saves doing nothing against some of those "pass a test or die" spells and in turn magic resistance being effectively pointless.
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Post by stonecutter on Jul 31, 2013 6:47:29 GMT -5
The entire point of spells like dwellers or pit of shades that deny ward saves is to grant the possibility of killing things that would otherwise be nearly impossible to touch (i.e. wood elves taking on a WoC horde). On the flip side, the biggest problem (re: what annoys players the most) is that a single casting can easily end a game on turn 1 when it takes out the characters in the unit. Losing half a unit doesn't hurt near as much as losing the level 4 wizard in the army (along with perhaps 1-2 other characters). MR is useful against other direct damage spells so it does have utility, a utility commensurate with its cost since it already grants a WS to an entire unit.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jul 31, 2013 7:01:55 GMT -5
I've seen a couple of comments which illustrate without dwellers WE would have a terrible time against horde units... I totally get that... WE need a new book badly for sure.
What really illustrates the brokenness of lore of life isn't WE though, it's lizardmen. Mind you a new codex is inbound very, very shortly (days) but the giant block of T8 saurus spamming dwellers every turn, taking away your six's and adding a dice to every spell (guaranteed to get them all too with loremaster) was inherently broken on so many levels. If lore of life was only available to wood elves, I think you'd see a whole lot less complaining, but it isn't... it's available to several armies that can really abuse it, especially lizardmen. I really like lizardmen too, it's not about that... just an illustration of how unbalanced the book lores are, even between each other... I mean if you could take lore of life or lore of fire... which one would you choose?
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Post by stonecutter on Jul 31, 2013 8:27:44 GMT -5
I would agree that what Jack Shrapnel has described is the perfect storm in terms of how magic and some specific army builds can be abused in 8th edition. The recommended limitations go a long way toward rectifying these problems IMHO since they address each part of the abuse as follows:
1) horde size is limited right off the get-go. This means that even 1-2 turns without serious buffs can dramatically shift the game and hurt the unit (i.e. the dispel scroll or dice are saved for a critical flesh to stone casting)
2) castings dwellers with "impunity" - if dwellers is killing rank and file for the most part and leaving the characters intact, life is much easier:-) At the very least, the level 4 wizard is still around to help provide magic defence.
3) Casting dwellers with "impunity" (yes, dwellers warrants being mentioned twice!!) - lowering the casting limit from 6 to 5 dice increases the chance of failure from ~13% to ~40%, making it much less attractive to blast away with dwellers in the first place.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jul 31, 2013 8:46:29 GMT -5
totally agree and support the limitations on the magic phase for certain!
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