1850 marines

[thesanityassassin]

Jun 29, 2010 1:54:21 GMT -5 @shasodnarb said:

My concern would be that they would so completely devastate the combat that they unequivocally wipe them out immediately, leaving them out in the open against the enemy's subsequent shooting. Wouldn't it often be better to try and balance it so that they wipe them out in the enemy's assault phase?

I understand what you're saying here, and I agree that such a tactic is often helpful, but it's somewhat against the purpose of this unit. You in fact WANT it left out on the table to absorb shooting.
With it's absurd saves and general immunity to leadership, it can really absorb more fire point for point than anything in the game. It can do SO much damage when it charges that it HAS to be shot up and destroyed before it charges or it will total whatever it hits. This means you buy yourself 2-3 turns where all the shots are going to fly either at the Land Raider or the Terminators. As a non-scoring unit this is really optimal. While destroying stuff is certainly great, in any objective game this unit is a winner because it absorbs fire more than kills things. You can trail your scoring units in onto objectives, knowing your opponent needs to shoot at your terminators or risk being tabled. In kill point games, again, so long as you get at least one KP with them, they've likely paid for themselves by drawing in enough fire to get 2 or 3 whole marine units.

I really do view this unit as a suicide unit, and it's by thinking of it in such a way that I've managed to beat it a few times. Feed it something to get it out on the table, and then get away from it, or just keep it occupied while you do your job of killing the scoring units it is trying to draw your attention away from. It obviously sounds a lot easier than it is, especially with the long range of the land raider charge, but I've found that "misplacing" a unit within charge range can often bait them out. If you can then wreck the Land Raider and leave them on foot, you can generally avoid them for the rest of the game, and only turn on shooting them once there's no better targets. (I've still had Trevor's last 4 turns of shooting from my whole army this way. Ow!).

As for the tactic of the two phase assaults, I think it's a very good one, and one I often try to make use of, but it's also something you need to be very careful with, as the worst case scenario is getting stuck with a single model through a THIRD assault phase, and still popping out onto the enemies guns, while missing one of your own phases.

[trevor]

stop telling people how to beat my army matt .


;D

[trevor]

ok heres a not to do list when faceing the th/ss
1. don't place anything accross from it volentarily
2. don't group units together so multiple charges are posible
3. if you have a sqaudron of vehicles put some troops in front so a charge can't be made.
to do list
1. assault range is 21 and 1/2 inches if you do/don't want a unit to get charged be aware of this.
2. if reserves that can kill the raider did't make it backing up is always an option, alot of players will be stubern and stand and shoot.
3. impeading the tanks path is always a good option, ( i personaly will almost never go threw difficult terain with it or force a death or glory).

[thefryingdutchman]

You're relying so heavily on that deathstar making it across into enemy lines that if it goes down you're up s$$t creak. The point sink on that raider is ABSURDLY high...like 830 points high. Sure anything you hit dies instantly and you can abuse wound allocation till the day you die but if it doesn't hit home that's an enormous chunk of your army sitting and doing nothing. With only one land raider, guess where every lascannon/deep striking meltagun/ordnance shot goes turn 1/2.

But I guess it's not my list...so what else would I change.

The chappy could swap for a libby. You lose those re-rolls but gain a force weapon and a psychic hood + whatever power you choose. Psychic defense is great these days.

Instead of the dread having a Lascannon, either get him a pod to fire down in or go 2xTL autocannon for a more effective/versatile round of shooting.

Lose the fist on the bikes. 4 SM at T5 isn't really alot. I'd move it to the sternguard.

Hope I wasn't too offensive with that anti-deathstar unit rant. You could always drop the bikes/scouts/rhino from the sternguard and get the sternies a Land raider too tho.

[trevor]

nope thanks for the ideas dutchman. i got a new idea for an 1850 list that i think will be a bit better. tell me what you think?
HQ
Chaplin=100
Chaplin with termy armour and storm bolter=130
Elites
Dred with twin linked lass=135
10 assault termys,(hammers [combate squad])=400
Dred with twin linked lass=135
Troops
5 scouts with cloaks and rifles=90
10 tactical marines with flamer rocket power weapon and rhino=220
Heavy
Thud gun=100
raider with extra armor=265
crusaider with extra armor, and multi-melta=275
total=1850

[thesanityassassin]

That's certainly a crap-ton of killing Trevor! Dual-Raider is always tricky for certain armies to deal with, though with the level of meltas kicking around, it could put you in a hole quickly if your opponent can close on them.

It's also VERY small as lists go, and no matter how good those TH/SS termies are they'll get bogged down by a pile of S3 or 4 attacks on fearless models like big ork or hormagaunt mobs. They will do great against elite armies though.

My biggest concern is also the tiny number of troops choices you have. 15 scoring models is not enough in my opinion, even with the marines combat squadded. A savvy foe will be able to nail your troops even as the land raider squads hit home, leaving you with a draw at best unless you can table them.


That said, I do think it's a good list, but like any army it has its flaws, so I thought I would point them out.