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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 7, 2014 6:18:49 GMT -5
Comment from Youtube:
"Those vents seem way to powerful and hurt the Tyranids more than the Chaos & Renegades. Didn't seem very balanced. Maybe you could try it this way: 1-3 non-active, 4-5 Stealth (within 6"), 6 Eruption (within 6" units take D3 ST4 AP5 hits [ignoring cover saves might also be too much] same amount of hits and st/ap as Soul Blaze). Also it should be rolled per turn instead of per player turn, that would help balance the game out and not make it one sided. Although I think it would be cool if you had a lava river and some hardened lava to act as a bridge at a few points in the river. Could count as Dangerous Terrain =]"
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Post by voodoo on Dec 7, 2014 8:35:40 GMT -5
S4 ap5 would be ignored by everyone. I'd just park tanks next to it and make foot armies come into harms way to get me. As for the vents doing nothing on a 1-3, why have them then...
That said, I do think a constant 6+ that upgrades to 5+ on the 1-3 roll wouldn't break armies that have lots of stealth/shroud. My only worry then is foot units going to ground for a 3+ in the wide open.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 7, 2014 8:45:59 GMT -5
don't shoot the messenger  I agree S4 AP5 would make the vents a non-issue for marine armies, which would imbalance the scenario, punishing really only xenos...the youtube suggestion above actually goes WAY too far in the opposite direction in my opinion... the scenario needs to do something, otherwise it's just KP and D3 xenos die a turn I'm thinking game turn is actually one gem from the above suggestion though, that way BOTH armies are either helped (cover) or harmed (explosion) equally, and that change alone could make a big difference in balancing how brutal the vents CAN be for some armies. |
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Post by thesanityassassin on Dec 7, 2014 9:15:39 GMT -5
Those suggestions do kinda kill the scenario. Not sure who they came from though, but if the unique nature of our Championship missions aren't understood the scenario probably looks absolutely insane. Game turn might be worth trying out...like yo say, it gives each army the same benefit/risk - you don't get one guy getting slammed by damage and the other getting a cover save on his turn. Some kind of provision would have to be written in about the duration of Shaken and Stunned results if that's the case though - Make sure that the player with the second turn doesn't get a free pass while the first player has to deal with the damage results on his turn.
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Post by raceygaming on Dec 7, 2014 10:57:08 GMT -5
S4 ap5 would be ignored by everyone. I'd just park tanks next to it and make foot armies come into harms way to get me. As for the vents doing nothing on a 1-3, why have them then... That said, I do think a constant 6+ that upgrades to 5+ on the 1-3 roll wouldn't break armies that have lots of stealth/shroud. My only worry then is foot units going to ground for a 3+ in the wide open. I am unsure where you get this 3+ from? Its a 6+, on a 1-3 its a 5+. going to ground for +1 goes to 4+. You only get the +2 to cover for going to ground in area terrain (unless i totally misread something in 7th) None of the vent cloud effects are area terrain, since you have to have a clear and defined boarder to the terrain. A vent doesn't have this and if worse comes to worse just add a single line, the ash cloud is NOT area terrain. As for the idea of rolling each game turn, I'm having trouble get on board with this. I seems like a big disadvantage to the player with first turn. The 2nd player will always know the result of the roll before their turn starts while play one is just luck of the draw. I guess it depends on when the vent action occurs. If its start of the turn this might be less of a problem since player 2 cant really react to the vent effect. Lastly the Youtube comment was too over the top with the nerf bat. I like the damage output of the vents. It seems reasonable balanced. If anything I think giving the vents the "Melta" USR would really help fine tune the balance. Its only a 6" range so the vehicle would have to be within 3" of the vent to make a difference but if you really want your tank getting a 4+ save from being behind a vent you really have to be prepared for the consequences. is D3 S8 melta on side armor TOO harsh? Also thematically lava hitting a tank...seems like a melta weapon to me. |
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 7, 2014 12:42:47 GMT -5
given the vents go before both players turn, each player would know the result of the roll before their turn starts.
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Post by raceygaming on Dec 7, 2014 13:09:20 GMT -5
Okay so then per game turn seem very reasonable. At least one players bad luck on the vent roll is everyone's bad luck. That seems like a solid change
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Post by voodoo on Dec 7, 2014 14:44:12 GMT -5
It's not a change, it's been that way the whole time.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 7, 2014 16:33:28 GMT -5
Matt, we rolled for the vents each player turn, not each game turn... so maybe we did it wrong if it was supposed to be game turn all along?
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Post by voodoo on Dec 7, 2014 16:55:47 GMT -5
Sorry, no I read the comment incorrectly. It was written as game turn so the person going at the bottom of the turn doesn't get an advantage by being able to move to avoid vents after they've seen the top half turn player reveal their hand especially if you've got a very mobile army. Plus, if you roll a 1-3 then you've avoided the damage but given your opponent a cover save to your shooting.
I think it's worth trying game turn rather than player turn just to see what happens. As for melta to the explosions, yes in-game it makes more sense but it would imbalance it against vehicles as I lost hulls to even the low strength effect. Melta would destroy armor as even the S5 effect could harm AV14 if it was melta.
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