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Post by davidwatson on Apr 3, 2017 9:59:01 GMT -5
Guys I think you have some unrealistic expectation of events. I may have broken even with this after giving up my weekend to run it, and put all the time in ahead of time to put it together. I don't know if you have looked into the cost of renting a large space at a hotel but it is very expensive. Add on to that, the cost of putting together enough terrain to go on the tables and marketing costs and you start to get a full picture. A event that is at a store with terrain can do much better for prizes especially if the store provides the prizes at cost.
We keep the cost low and have the prizes reflective of that because we don't want to encourage folks bringing out WAAC lists. That's also why we have hobby scores. We do our best to provide a hobby centric event. For this past one we tried running doubles and singles back to back, and that hurt our attendance some. We also based on feedback from our forms tried out giving folks ITC points, that also hurt attendance and resulted in stronger lists than I would have liked to have seen. Singles we had about 20 out.
In terms of value, that's a individual choice, but for the doubles at a cost of $15 per person, about the cost of a movie folks got a full day of gaming in on nice looking tables vs. folks and armies they don't normally play. Everyone got a forge world catalog, a discount for xolk a Canadian terrain manufacturer, and free shipping code for a bits supplier. We gave out about $400 in prizes over the two days, based on draw tickets, and giving out extra tickets for perfect painting and sportsmanship scores, so it wasn't just about winning. Each event we put out about 7 prizes and let folks pick what they wanted.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Apr 3, 2017 10:58:17 GMT -5
actually 90% of what we reported from your event was quite positive. The only expectations we had from attending the event was what was posted beforehand on the Facebook page. We've attended several out of town tournaments so our expectations aren't out of reach.
Given what others were talking about during lunch about their experience, it doesn't seem like our expectation or experience was out of the norm, and I tried to keep their criticisms out of my recap.
We had three great games and a lot of fun and said in my recap how happy I was with how we did. As a person who runs and organizes 5-6 tournaments a year for the past 8 years I know how difficult it is to get that all together.
How you choose to run your events is of course totally up to you, and I'm glad your system is working for you.
In any tournaments I attend, I always give a feedback as to the experience - good and bad. And as a tourney organizer I ASK every time for what went well and what didn't go so well for my own learning. It's not personal it's just honest feedback.
I don't attend tournies for the prizes, however I know some people do, so I give feedback about the prize table as part of it. My feedback about extra tickets for winning games said in my opinion weighted the prize pool for the winners (3 tickets to 1), which is not how I personally do things, but hey, it's your show, do what you like.
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Post by davidwatson on Apr 4, 2017 9:51:17 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong Jack, it was great having you guys out. The impression I get is both the Peterborough and Kingston groups feel more hobby based. I was just responding to the notion that there is any kind of profit in trying to run one of these outside of a store, when likely 75% or more just goes towards rent and terrain. It is a real struggle just to break even on the 40k events. The note on MoW is worthwhile and I'll get the site updated to better highlight that before the next event. Locally we play almost exclusively MoW mission so that notion wasn't really on my radar. I am really happy that you enjoyed your games. What did you think of the tables, both from a ascetic perspective and mechanical one? The ticket idea was a new one we tried out, to try to diminish the drive to win at all cost. I'd appreciate additional perspectives or ways of doing it. First thing I always do after a event is invite feedback either on our FB site www.facebook.com/groups/320363398001959/ or by e-mail dwatson@nexicom.net .
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Post by voodoo on Apr 4, 2017 10:20:27 GMT -5
I thought the tables were really nicely laid out. Each had their own set of advantages and drawbacks. You’ll never mitigate the WAAC lists; I knew that one as soon as I saw the winning list from last year’s LVO broken into a pair of 1k lists across the table from us. The literal definition of WAAC. Despite it we had a fun day of games and were pleasantly surprised by our 2nd place finish.
As for the MoW missions, locally we play a modified Maelstrom that seems to work, there’s no decks required and as such no missions that are impossible and/or no “gain D3 vp” cards either. We found that it keeps the games more even as neither you nor your opponent can draw one or two good cards and sprint ahead by 6+vp’s in a single turn.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Apr 4, 2017 10:40:33 GMT -5
Yeah we're definitely more of a hobby over competitive crowd here generally (although some of our bigger events do bring out some tough lists - we comp match them up against each other and generally people with the friendly lists don't tend to meet up with the netlists)
I do appreciate that it's a whole other animal running an event outside of a local store. We are incredibly lucky here to have Nexus (I've rarely ever seen a store with this much table space!) and the opportunity to have that kind of support.
What we do here is very similar to your system. But everyone gets a set number of tickets (usually 10) whether they win every game or lose every game. There's literally no incentive to bring a WAAC list prize wise. We don't even submit ITC points so there's no reason for a list to show up to try and rise up the ranks (normally at the expense of others). The only top prizes are a store trophy with spots for winners names to be added. For the big February event we have trophies for the top prizes but that's it.
I switched to this method a number of years ago and it seemed to drop the netlists off the radar fairly quickly. We occasionally have them show up, but to be honest, they don't tend to win events, don't have a better chance at prizes, and the social aspect of bringing a brutal list while everyone else is pretty normal tends to be a deterrent as well.
However we made a conscious effort as a community to make it like this... it would have been a LOT harder to do if the community was completely split as to what they wanted.
I really liked the tables, especially how they were themed terrain. Makes for a very cool narrative when you get to play on a table like that. There seemed to be a good amount of area and LOS blocking terrain which made for some really tactical games (our second one most notably had the terrain influence sight lines etc. which really helped)
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Post by davidwatson on Apr 4, 2017 12:00:24 GMT -5
That's a neat idea of static level of tickets. I was thinking if I keep it based on win loss 3-2-1, of giving a bonus of 2 on the day (or something like that) for getting perfect scores on painting and sportsmanship. I think that balances things out. Just thinking out loud, but it'd be nice to equally reward those hobby elements.
For the missions the intention was to be a counter to extreme builds like MSU or Deathstars.
In July Dueling Grounds is moving down to Peterborough, and if everything lines up there would be the same kind of gaming space as Nexus. If it all pans out it will be a game changer and lead to some more events up this way.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Apr 4, 2017 12:28:30 GMT -5
I can't praise Nexus enough for what it gives to the community here... so if you're getting a similar space in Peterborough it'll be great!
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Post by redshirt2375 on Apr 4, 2017 13:50:03 GMT -5
As someone whose gaming career started in Peterborough (at Eyeball Soup when it was still open) it is nice to here the city will be getting a great gaming space/store again
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