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Post by shasodnarb on May 30, 2010 23:24:56 GMT -5
COMMANDER: - 1 Autarch, power sword, shuriken pistol, plasma/haywire, master strategist, forceshield
ADVISOR (Eldrad): - 1 Master Farseer, artifact staff, witchblade, shuriken pistol, psychic powers, divination, stones, warding, witnessing, ghosthelm, artifact armour
DRAGON SERPENT: - 1 Serpent, twin shuriken cannon, shuriken cannon, energy field - 5 Dragons, fusion guns
DRAGON SERPENT: - 1 Serpent, twin shuriken cannon, shuriken cannon, energy field - 5 Dragons, fusion guns
WALKER SQUADRON: - 3 Walkers, shuriken cannons
WALKER SQUADRON: - 3 Walkers, shuriken cannons
WALKER SQUADRON: - 3 Walkers, shuriken cannons
AVENGER SERPENT: - 1 Serpent, twin bright lance, shuriken cannon, energy field - 5 Avengers, avenger catapults
AVENGER SERPENT: - 1 Serpent, twin bright lance, shuriken cannon, energy field - 5 Avengers, avenger catapults
AVENGER SERPENT: - 1 Serpent, twin bright lance, shuriken cannon, energy field - 5 Avengers, avenger catapults
AVENGER SERPENT: - 1 Serpent, twin bright lance, shuriken cannon, energy field - 5 Avengers, avenger catapults
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Post by redshirt2375 on May 31, 2010 5:53:39 GMT -5
Doubtful I have any lists that I run that could stand up to this....very Min/Maxed
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Post by Tommy on May 31, 2010 6:02:50 GMT -5
Yeah that'll be a good list for hoping on objectives and blasting the enemy to bits, have you considered swaping the warwalkers shurikin cannons for scatter lasers, i know they always worked well for matt when he faced me...
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on May 31, 2010 6:09:22 GMT -5
....ouch.... Looks like a very mobile list, and definitely capable of dishing out the hurt.... Not to mention that last turn objective push.... Do you find having such small squads works out okay? not alot of bodies if someone has the ability to pop open your transports... ...not that either of my armies has that ability to deal with this much mech mind you.....
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Post by shasodnarb on May 31, 2010 6:37:08 GMT -5
Actually, the list has never been played, much less collected. I built it for a friend of mine who plays Eldar and tried to come up with the toughest thing I could. I'm hoping he works toward putting running it someday. I'm not sure I could fit scatter lasers onto the walkers because as RedShirt said, it's definitely very min/maxed, and I simply don't think I could find points to shave off... plus, to be honest, I'm actually a big fan of the minimal points cost and AP5 of shuriken cannons.
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Post by thesanityassassin on May 31, 2010 13:04:22 GMT -5
It's a nasty looking list, but in this new realm of Mechanization it might run into some trouble in that destroying that many vehicles is not longer massively difficult for many armies. Still, it's certainly a viable way to win a lot of games by simply avoiding combat and flying around pulling for the late tank-shock. Hold as much in reserve as possible to give less turns for you stuff to actually be on the board...Give the Autarch a fusion gun if you can....popping a BS6 fusion out of an Avenger serpent can hide some more anti-tank.
I still don't like the Shurikacannons though I understand the argument for them. My feeling is still that range is your friend. At 24" bolters and other S4 weapons (Which have nothing else to shoot at) can start hitting back at you, and faster troops can get to assualt from that range. The extra 12" also helps get you angles for rear armour shots and the like. That said, to each their own.
Anyways, I've discussed it in that sense, now I feel the need to do a little bit of a rant, which I apologize for in advance.
I really think that lists like this a ruining my enjoyment of 40k, and that of many others. If you go to a top level tourney, I can expect to find them, and that's OK, but at local play levels (competitive or not), I really frown upon them. They really focus on WINNING to the exclusion of all else, and the first casualty of that is often your opponent enjoying his time at the table at all. I've seen games played with similar lists that last about 40 minutes, and basically involve nothing happening but the Eldar player flying back and forth 24", not shooting or getting out, and then tank-shocking at objectives on the last turn....He wins his massacre, but I know for a fact his opponent didn't enjoy himself, and I have a hard time thinking that he would have either.
Transport-hammer Tankshock-hammer Reserve-hammer
I know that this is the direction the competitive game is headed, and while it saddens me (I miss the days when KILLY lists won by scoring Victory Points and infantry on foot was viable at all), I know I have to deal with it. I just don't want the Kingston metagame to go that way....lists like that showing up is one of the big reasons why I'm now largely relegating myself to playing in my basement with "bad" lists, but having a hell of a good time blowing up his unoptimized units with my unoptimized units, winning the game by actually fighting with good tactics rather than making as "point-click-win" a list as I can find.
I'm not saying that some lists I make aren't nasty (20 terminators does hurt, I know), but they're all designed to actually battle.....
I dunno...it's kind of dying down here, but I felt the need to get that off of my chest. I hope people understand where I'm coming from and what I'm talking about.
Again, I understand the point of lists like thatt, and expect to see them if I go to say, a Warmaster's Challenge event or the like. I just don't want them to ALWAYS be there. Because if they are, I probably won't be.
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Post by nekekami on May 31, 2010 13:52:27 GMT -5
It's things like this why I have a Blood Angels meltaspam list to punch people around with.
Though, I do agree with Matt on the way the metagame is changing, and long for the days of foot-slogging infantry. Hell, I remember winning RedCon with my Dark Angels that fielded two Dreadnoughts as the only armour in a force.
But, that's the nature of evolving games. The simple numbers, and how you manage to minmax out your rules takes priority over just kicking things around with an army you like to play, instead of being forced to take the same few ForceOrg selections to make something tournament viable.
Which I suppose is the point, right? You can fluff it up all you want whenever you feel like, but unless both players are of that same mindset, you're always gonna see people that have the need to bring a rock-hard tournament list they saw at a GT or something, and use it against you.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2010 14:00:47 GMT -5
I dunno... I think one reason people might be cheesing out more and buying more big things is the $$ to points ratio... You can buy a nice big tank for a few bucks more than a base squad and fill out far more points, quickly. When a full squad costs more than some of the big tanks... what do you think you'd go for? Then there is the modelling on top of that. Assembling an Orc Horde army would take considerably more time that the list presented here. Then there is painting.
I dunno. I love the idea of seeing the table absolutely cluttered with battle. But we all play the game our own way and have different opinions of 'fun'.
Just my 2 cents.
EDIT: Orc Stompa = $118.75 Orc Boys (10) = $26.50 40 orc boyz or a stompa... hrm...
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Post by shasodnarb on May 31, 2010 15:47:18 GMT -5
I won't attempt to define what's fun for other players but I definitely know what I enjoy most about the hobby so far: preparation, planning, and analysis, including list building.
Having said that, I certainly wouldn't bring this sort of list down to Nexus for a casual pickup game. Unless otherwise agreed upon, I think it would be a little uncouth to do so.
However, as far as tournaments go, I have no problem with people fielding the best they have, unless the tournament itself specifically attempts to stress fluff and narrative as part of a theme, which I think would be really cool (indeed, running games as per normal but tallying results as part of two or more large alliances would be really neat!).
For me, my goal is to eventually win one of the big tournaments. Although I have a ridiculous amount lot to learn before I win anything at all, I need to improve somewhere and I intend to use local/regional tournaments as practice.
Truth be told, everyone wants something at least a little different from the hobby, although I'm sure everyone still wants to have fun, even if it's sometimes in their own way.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on May 31, 2010 16:39:35 GMT -5
Well from my limited 40k tourney experience, I must say that mech does win... if you have no answer to mech, well those five guys are going to just hop in that landraider and sit on the objective on you (or speedier tank will just tank shock you off the objective last turn)...
As much as I loves my hordes (having nids then orks) I gotta say, with no answer to mech, my nids got pretty frustrated quick... which is what drew me to the orks... they can mech up enough to be viable - but don't have to go all out and still can keep the horde going...
the tourney metagame appears to be mech... because from what I've seen, mech in this edition of 40k is very good, and will give you the results you want in a tourney, namely being able to conserve your points through denial of kills, give you mobility over your footslogging opponent and a definite edge....
however if you have brought anti-mech to the table (which more and more is a necessity) suddenly that advantage drops a bit...
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Post by redshirt2375 on May 31, 2010 19:25:54 GMT -5
Well I have to say now that Comp scores are being added in, it should help to keep things on an even field since those with "win at all costs" lists will have to do just that to win, where as the guys who take the more fluffy lists will have the comp scores to offset there more friendly play style
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Post by shasodnarb on May 31, 2010 20:11:09 GMT -5
Correlation, possibly... but let's not for an instant imply causation.
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Post by redshirt2375 on May 31, 2010 20:15:19 GMT -5
You just had to get all technical
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Post by shasodnarb on May 31, 2010 20:25:27 GMT -5
All I mean to say is that I hope to feel free to bring my toughest Tau list to tournaments without being condemned, especially since I'll be trying to be friendly and have fun while doing so. Fortunately, I'm not too worried about it; around here, pretty much everyone has seemed reasonable about that sort of thing. Plus, whenever I say I play Tau, people still laugh at me... so I know I won't be able to bring anything too tough.
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Post by danydaigle24 on May 31, 2010 20:39:43 GMT -5
I dont understand why people laugh at you. Well played Tau are very good. Tommy as a very good list.
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