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Post by voodoo on May 1, 2018 10:06:47 GMT -5
While cool; they need Legion of the Damned already! I need my crazy ghost marines back in a non-index format; preferably along with Inquisition units and a bunch of assassins.
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on May 1, 2018 12:32:38 GMT -5
I'm very much more optimistic having read that preview now. Primaris sounds like it's just body/statline choice, rather than anything specific at this point.
I've changed my Codex:Deathwatch outlook from "DAMMIT" to "Cautiously Optimistic".
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on May 2, 2018 12:13:42 GMT -5
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on May 2, 2018 12:46:03 GMT -5
I'm not sure how I feel about the idea that a single aggressor lets all the other heavy weapons move and shoot without penalty (given they're not equipped with the same heavy armor that lets an aggressor do this) or a single inceptor giving the fly benefit to the walking troopers who... well can't fly.
okay, deathwatch gets mixed rules for units... get it... it's their thing...
but it's a bit of a stretch for me in the whole "this makes sense" logically. I'll go with "it's a game that doesn't have to make sense" and just accept the silliness.
Can't see why anyone would run normal marines as deathwatch though... primaris seem like the obvious choice.
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Post by LizardTau on May 2, 2018 13:08:31 GMT -5
Frag cannons.
Unless they can have them also
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Post by raceygaming on May 2, 2018 21:56:06 GMT -5
Codex Primaris I guess... I mean I think this is the last nail in the coffin for the tactical marine. Hopefully tact marines drop to 11-12 pts and give them some new life
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on May 3, 2018 11:12:33 GMT -5
Part 3: www.warhammer-community.com/2018/05/03/3rd-may-deathwatch-a-stratagem-for-every-enemygw-homepage-post-2/I'm a little less impressed today, the stratagems are basically copies of the mission tactics and give +1 to wound rolls. Which is terms of power-level is nothing to sneeze at, but in terms of how the army is structured they clearly want you to spam primaris troops for CP + Mixed Units and then use Strats/Missions to make your Bolters kill everything. I'd much rather have at least a little diversity to my marine army, rather than pretty much just all infantry, and I haven't seen much that makes me feel like including a cool dreadnought or vehicle is a good choice yet. We'll see what the codex brings, I figure with the pre-orders up Saturday we'll get a full codex review via the usual sources either tomorrow or Sat AM. |
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Post by cmcd on May 3, 2018 11:26:52 GMT -5
I like the race specific Stratagems for Death Watch. It adds to their uniqueness.
The -1 to Reanimation Protocols or even the Remove all Marker-light hits is mean. But Effective.
It be nice to see what Units they chose for Fast attack / Heavy that are not Infantry if any.
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Post by thadin on May 3, 2018 13:16:48 GMT -5
I hope they put out a new Primaris kitty with the codex, for an alternate and hopefully cheaper transport. And that the other codexes can use it.
I may give the deathwatch rules themself a try. See how they do in a purely Primaris fashion, given I have a lot of them anyways and only run Primaris in my marine armies.
It might even be useful for an Imperial Soup army to take a Patrol of Deathwatch to get access to those sweet sweet stratagems. At least the Necron one, because its more a global effect.
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Post by cmcd on May 4, 2018 13:40:53 GMT -5
Something I noticed today. GW has added Primaris to their website for DeathWatch. Including Redemptor Dreadnought.
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on May 4, 2018 20:45:18 GMT -5
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on May 4, 2018 21:20:17 GMT -5
TL:DR from Winters review:
Huge list of bolt weapons that has access to specialist ammo.
Point costs are the same as Codex:Space Marines, except for weapons with access to special ammo cost 1 extra point, 2 extra points for twin-variants. Eg Bolt Rifle costs 1 extra point, Twin Bolter costs 2 extra points. Storm Bolters may finally have access to special ammo (they are 2 points more atm)
Interceptors have no access to special ammo, probably because they would be crazy good with it
Regular Marine bodies dropped 3 points, but since the cost of the weapons went up 1 point, it basically evens out. No big points drops, basically just bringing everything in line with Codex Space Marines. In general a 2k army can expect to pickup 30-50 points for some new toys, but that's about it.
Corvus Blackstar dropped 10 points, cannot transport primaris units.
The obviously synergy of primarus lieutenants + poisoned 2+ ammo to reroll all wounds doesn't exist, there are no lieutenants in the book. Primarius Libbies, Captains, etc all exist as normal, but no lieutenants.
Stratagem exists to split special ammo types from a single unit, can for example have half the guys in a unit fire Kraken rounds and the other half fire Hellfire rounds
Relic Power Sword that allows reroll wounds vs xenos of your choice at start of game. Relic Storm Shield that if bearer stands still all models within 6" get 5++ invul, this includes vehicles (anything with Deathwatch keyword)
Deathwatch psychic powers are exact same as Codex:Space Marines
Veterans bonuses are still:
Terminator - Immune to morale
Vanguard Vet - Fall back and shoot as if you had Fly
Biker - Charge even after falling back
Primaris bonuses are:
Reiver - Enemy units within 3" suffer -1 to leadership
Aggressor - Move & Shoot Heavy Weapons without penalty, Advance & Shoot Assault Weapons without penalty
Interceptor - Fall back and shoot as if you had fly
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on May 5, 2018 5:42:41 GMT -5
doesn't seem to crazy at all... seems solid bonuses but not "all your other marines are invalidated" good which is the weird position an "elite" version of marines can do to the rest (see 5th edition grey knights)
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on May 5, 2018 6:18:28 GMT -5
Yeah, it's kinda nice that veterans units aren't completely invalidated by primaris. They are actually the better unit in terms of bonuses and volume of firepower they can put out, but are obviously the less durable option now. (they also still retain the only access to Frag Cannons which are just devastating when mixed with those bonuses)
One thing that makes me a little sad is the Reiver bonus is kinda bad compared to the rest, I get the feeling you won't see many folks adding them in. Which is a shame because they are a really awesome looking model/unit.
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Post by stofficus on May 5, 2018 8:59:18 GMT -5
The one oddity I saw is they added Primaris Apothecaries, but not regular apothecaries.
But then it's kind of the open secret that primaris will gradually replace regular marines in terms of rules and focus, at least for the loyalist 'dexes.
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