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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Mar 25, 2022 6:08:25 GMT -5
From Blood of Kittens:
Adepticon Top 16: Totally Healthy state of Warhammer 40k!
1 Thomas Ogden - T'au Empire
2 John Lennon - Harlequins
3 Austin Wingfield - Necrons
4 Matt Robertson- Harlequins
5 Jacob McFalls - T'au Sept
6 Zach Point - Harlequins
7 David Fields - Ultramarines
8 Grant Hinkle - T'au Empire
9 Jack Harpster - Aeldari
10 James Kelling -Aeldari
11 Tyler White - Adeptus Custodes
12 Benjamin Cherwien - Ulthwe
13 Greg Harris - Adeptus Custodes
14 Brenton Weiss - T'au Sept
15 Eduardo Gonzalez - Necrons
16 Alex Rutnarak - Aeldari
Army Breakdown:
Aeldari: 7
Tau: 4
Necrons: 2
Custodes: 2
Space Marines 1
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Post by Typhus on Mar 25, 2022 7:49:54 GMT -5
Thank goodness they nerfed Sisters and Death Guard.
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Post by raceygaming on Mar 25, 2022 8:19:26 GMT -5
I'm curious to see if Eldar are just the new hotness because of the new codex and a lot of people had access to their models or if they are actually a strong counter to custodes as shown by these numbers.
I will admit looking at tournament results like this make me feel like they could undo a number of nerfs to other codexs to bring them back in line.
Things like when they said +5 ppm for blade guard, eradicators and outsiders...that could probably be undone.DG deathshroud can go back down. I'm honestly OK with pox walkers being 7 but plague marines need a big buff to make up for it.
Orks could probably get their buggy list back with the new point changes too.
I know it's not a good sign , but unless they are going to re-write some of these new codex I don't know if points changes will be enough to drop win rates into balance without re-buffing old stuff
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Mar 25, 2022 8:30:08 GMT -5
Thank goodness they nerfed Sisters and Death Guard. I know right? |
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Mar 25, 2022 8:33:46 GMT -5
I'm curious to see if Eldar are just the new hotness because of the new codex and a lot of people had access to their models or if they are actually a strong counter to custodes as shown by these numbers. I will admit looking at tournament results like this make me feel like they could undo a number of nerfs to other codexs to bring them back in line. Things like when they said +5 ppm for blade guard, eradicators and outsiders...that could probably be undone.DG deathshroud can go back down. I'm honestly OK with pox walkers being 7 but plague marines need a big buff to make up for it. Orks could probably get their buggy list back with the new point changes too. I know it's not a good sign , but unless they are going to re-write some of these new codex I don't know if points changes will be enough to drop win rates into balance without re-buffing old stuff I'm thinking Eldar counter custodes, as the custodes numbers are what dropped significantly from what they have been posting up for the last few months. They need Navananti, Sieglar, and THOSE guys to be their playtesters... give them the new codex before it goes to print and tell them "play this against every other codex trying to break the game as much as you can"... those guys can do it... all you need to do is see what three datasheets Navananti spams in every list... nerf those! lol |
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Post by raceygaming on Mar 25, 2022 8:45:16 GMT -5
Ya I can see the Eldar having the mobility to chase down and kill 6-9 bikes with them not being able to hide which is the crutch of meta Custodes. If you kill their 2-3 mobile units that are ALSO their to the Lasts the rest of the army can't score outside of their half.
Its interesting that Eldar seem to be better at killing custodes than Tau but Tau seem to just LoS leftblower the T3 elves, and I guess Custodes bikes are still good into Tau?
The real props goes to the Necrons who after the core buff have picked themselves up and shown with a more balanced codex they can hold their own into the meta.
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Post by lightcavalier on Mar 25, 2022 10:19:39 GMT -5
I'm curious to see if Eldar are just the new hotness because of the new codex and a lot of people had access to their models or if they are actually a strong counter to custodes as shown by these numbers. I will admit looking at tournament results like this make me feel like they could undo a number of nerfs to other codexs to bring them back in line. Things like when they said +5 ppm for blade guard, eradicators and outsiders...that could probably be undone.DG deathshroud can go back down. I'm honestly OK with pox walkers being 7 but plague marines need a big buff to make up for it. Orks could probably get their buggy list back with the new point changes too. I know it's not a good sign , but unless they are going to re-write some of these new codex I don't know if points changes will be enough to drop win rates into balance without re-buffing old stuff I'm thinking Eldar counter custodes, as the custodes numbers are what dropped significantly from what they have been posting up for the last few months. They need Navananti, Sieglar, and THOSE guys to be their playtesters... give them the new codex before it goes to print and tell them "play this against every other codex trying to break the game as much as you can"... those guys can do it... all you need to do is see what three datasheets Navananti spams in every list... nerf those! lol The suggested solution creates a self licking ice cream cone problem. Top player breaks game IOT balance game....top player also winds up with detailed insider knowledge of what is coming, and thus always remains at the bleeding edge knowing what's going to be good (think instead of knowing 2-3 weeks out with review copies, knowing 4-6 months or more out)....because not only would they be testing the codexes, theyd be testing the rules/missions packs themselves. We started to see this issue with Flames of War, where some of the top players always seemed to have the newest best army perfectly ready to go while ppl still hadnt figured out what played into it well or countered it. Their status as playtesters helped keep the same 4 dudes at the top of the UK and Europe tournament circuits for a couple years before battlefront told them to either stop or loose out on testing anymore. Same thing happened in MTG the fallout from doing this is why MTG had to implement a no-competing rule that freezes their playtesters out top level competition for a couple years after they stop playtesting. The other issue is that the ppl who get really really good at games like these try to make them as non interactive as possible (see the period of time where top ad mech were winning games by doing basiclaly nothing other than standing around in the mid field and their deployment zone). To these sorts of ppl rolling dice is bad.....so while they will break the game to try and make it better...they may not be aiming to build the game you actually want to play. |
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Mar 25, 2022 10:45:34 GMT -5
lol... yeah it was a tongue-in-cheek suggestion  |
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Mar 25, 2022 10:52:25 GMT -5
The fix is what it's always been:
Spend more effort testing and then, when you make mistakes (because you will), be proactive about fixing them.
Getting GW to implement on it is a whole other problem.
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Post by Typhus on Mar 25, 2022 10:54:30 GMT -5
The fix is what it's always been: Stop letting Phil Kelly write rules. |
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Mar 25, 2022 11:28:15 GMT -5
For those who've been playing for alot of years, I agree with Ray.. there was a time there was NO balance updates (not even yearly) and you sometimes had to wait literally several years (or even editions) for a codex to try and bring your army in line. There was ZERO communication from GW and they actively ignored the community online (due to how damn toxic it was), and said openly they did not create, or balance this game for tournament players at all. We HAVE come a long way. Your community and who you play matters FAR more than anything written in the books. Be nice to each other... even the Eldar players PS: You can't stop Phil Kelly until you stop Robin Cruddace... that guy's a menace! But at least Matt Ward is gone! |
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Mar 25, 2022 11:45:26 GMT -5
Yup. I keep pushing the narrative that the top players and play testing communities are bringing this upon themselves.
They balance the game, they have advanced knowledge of the rules, they have _your_ money in a slush fund to buy and paint whatever models they need to exploit the meta-game at any point in time.
GW is doing a great job balancing the game, yes, currently results like this point to the all three of these books probably needing nerfs, changes, or otherwise being brought in line with the other 9th books released so far.
I've been the player who played the stuff he thought was cool, regardless of balance.
I've been the player who brought the latest cheese FOTM build
I've been the player who screamed game balance sucks, or blatantly denied an obviously OP army was OP.
It took a long time for me to realize that we've got it pretty good these days, and for those of us who have only been playing since 6th, 7th or even more recently this does seem like the sky is falling. But I assure you the sun will come up tomorrow, even if it's cloudy.
~36 days til the May Balance Dataslate.
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Mar 25, 2022 12:52:02 GMT -5
For those who've been playing for alot of years, I agree with Ray.. there was a time there was NO balance updates (not even yearly) and you sometimes had to wait literally several years (or even editions) for a codex to try and bring your army in line. There was ZERO communication from GW and they actively ignored the community online (due to how damn toxic it was), and said openly they did not create, or balance this game for tournament players at all. We HAVE come a long way. Your community and who you play matters FAR more than anything written in the books. Be nice to each other... even the Eldar players  PS: You can't stop Phil Kelly until you stop Robin Cruddace... that guy's a menace! But at least Matt Ward is gone! Matt Ward apparently wrote Vermintide and Vermintide 2 which is bonkers since they've got the most fun writing in any Warhammer product in a decade! That was a shocking bit of trivia |
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Post by question on Mar 25, 2022 15:43:59 GMT -5
Been here since Rogue Trader and Frosty is right. The evolution has been both fun and infuriating. But as weird as it has been at times the game looks only superficially like what we started with. And despite the constant internet netlisting and bitching, it is in a much better place than it has been by far. Adapt or die applies to our game as well, so: less whining, more thinking and remembering to have fun. This from a guy who eventually figured out that shifting from focussing on winning to focussing on enjoying the game (while working in a win or two along the way) was a lot more fun and a crapload less irritating and stressful.
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