Well that got oppressive fast

[Jack Shrapnel]

ugh... I wanted a new book for years that was good... but not like this... no not like this....


www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-its-not-a-bug-its-a-feature/

As expected, a powerful book in the hands of GT players creates a nasty, nasty moment in time for the army, and will spell inevitable nerfs which will knock us casual friendly players and then the GT players will move on to the next hotness. 

This appears straight up oppressive... with of course a reliance on the harpy / maleceptor overtune combined with leviathan insanity (with the exception of Lennon's list) which makes for really unfun games. 

I had already tossed them out of any list that isn't for a competitive match because it felt bad bringing them. 

Of course that means GT players spam the hell out of them and this will inevitably raise the mighty nerfhammer in response. 

my take - add 30 points to both the harpy and the maleceptor, make the maleceptor mortal wound bomb capped or like it used to be, something you did ONCE and had to give up all your psychic powers to do it. And Leviathan not work on monsters. 

[raceygaming]

Well you can join the Tau Players who waited so long to get a codex and then pre-nerf just blew people out of the water. I think I am going to start to pick up my Tau again now that some of the power has been reigned in.

Hopefully they give Nids the Tau treatment and not the Custode or Ork were they really gutted things or literally upped points on model that were good on paper and not in practise.

[Frosty the Pirate]

Yeah, the Nids-mare is unfortunately coming true. I'm trying really hard not to rant today so I'll try and keep this short.

The Nids builds are pretty reliant on three key abilities you point out

- Leviathan's full-transhuman-for-synapse has made the platforms with math-hammer's darling weapon the HVC overly efficient.

- Maleceptor's mortal wound bomb and ability to spam it

- Harpy's ability to negate terrain/LOS and carry the HVC

These nerfs are fairly obvious, what's concerning is that this is the tip of the iceberg. With Harlies a few weeks ago, it was pretty clear Voidweavers were heavily undercosted, and the targeted direct nerfs have put them back into the 60-40 range for winrate (through 55-45 is the ideal spread).

With Nids, I'm fearing that just in general a large portion of the book may be undercosted, Goonhammer is resorting to the same thing they were doing with Drukhari last summer in just calling it "goodstuff" builds. This could mean sweeping and large nerfs via points to the same tune that was done in the first dataslate that generally remove 10-20% of the models from the average army build.

I hope I'm wrong, and the upcoming overall-game changes might neuter some of these builds a bit by removing double-hive-tyrants and all the extra relics and traits around, or perhaps the new mission pack coming will force more troops and less toys, but that's may not be nearly enough to bring these lists in line. Hilariously, Lennon's list looks to be _almost_ unaffected by those rumored changes too. It's _almost_ like he's aware of what next month's meta is going to look like already...

[Hi I'm Derek]

There's what, eight placements here that weren't Tyranids? And of those eight only two were books that weren't released in 2022.

What can I say that Boon doesn't capture in his foreward? The relentless firehose of busted releases is fatiguing. It's a sad capstone to what had been a relatively decent edition cycle until fairly recently. Maybe it's just inevitable, the intersection between GW's custodianship and the codex release format.

I think I'll probably just remain on the sidelines and observe until we see if GW can reign things in before 10th lands, plenty to do with HH coming and AoS 3.0 heating up.

[Jack Shrapnel]

The Malceptor, Harpy and the combination with Leviathan is the most busted combos, and every list barring two used this exact combination (in multiples of course).

I hope GW hits that squarely in the face with the nerfbat.... but DOESN'T destroy the rest of the book with it.

if 90% of the dominating lists use a combo of three things... those are the things to address.

I am not surprised (nor is anyone else) that GT players would capitalize on this. remains to be seen what they're doing.

I for one have been self-nerfing my tyranid lists every time I bring them out now, and have had extremely close games as a result with just tossing the harpy and malceptors to the shelf... because they're just too damn good.

Weird that two models I owned that were previously trash and really wanted to be good now I won't take them because they're too good lol

[Frosty the Pirate]

May 11, 2022 10:22:58 GMT -5 Jack Shrapnel said:

Weird that two models I owned that were previously trash and really wanted to be good now I won't take them because they're too good lol

Mar 14, 2022 13:50:59 GMT -5 Frosty the Pirate said:

it honestly doesn't matter what gets invalidated rules-wise or not, because the Nids dex is going to be such a deep overhaul that it'll completely flip the script on what units you want in your army anyways.

Nids are getting such a deep/core rework I'd hedge my bets that things that are currently completely awful will suddenly be the sold-out-must-have units in 3 weeks.

If I keep cold-callin' em like this I'm going to have to rename myself Frosty The Farseer lol. (Let's face it tho, we all knew this was going to happen...)

I'm still pretty sure if you rewound back to when I said that if you told me a GT winning list would have 10 Raveners and a half dozen Pyrovores I'd _still_ not have believed it.

I do hope you are right that the Harpy/Maleceptor and the Levithan trait are all that needs changing to tone the book down, I'm just not optimistic having just read that article... Maybe a another little breaky from the comp scene for a couple weeks is in order.

[Jack Shrapnel]

I don't know if that's ALL that's needed... but I'd rather have it start with nerfing the most oppressive builds (clearly used the most often to devastating results) then GW hit the codex with a brick repeatedly (AKA orks) randomly breaking stuff with no logic behind it.

It took literally two games with me using a malceptor and harpy to go "nope... this is too much"

it's not like they couldn't see this one coming.

[distractedcarnifex]

I’d like to be the first to welcome our new insect overlords.

[lightcavalier]

May 11, 2022 12:04:08 GMT -5 distractedcarnifex said:

I’d like to be the first to welcome our new insect overlords.

Desire to know more intensifies

[raceygaming]

May 11, 2022 11:41:25 GMT -5 Jack Shrapnel said:

I don't know if that's ALL that's needed... but I'd rather have it start with nerfing the most oppressive builds (clearly used the most often to devastating results) then GW hit the codex with a brick repeatedly (AKA orks) randomly breaking stuff with no logic behind it.

It took literally two games with me using a malceptor and harpy to go "nope... this is too much"

it's not like they couldn't see this one coming.

Unless the harpy rolls like it did vs my orks where I think it got 3 rounds of shooting and hit 4 times on the 18 shots, getting 1-2 wounds to save.

Now not every one can roll like that

[Jack Shrapnel]

lol... I do have special dice rolling skills... that's true

in other games however, where I've taken leviathan (for the reroll 1 hit AND transhuman on said Harpy for a 10 point upgrade)... it's been way too much.