Tau Leaks

[raceygaming]

www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/1bejv99/full_tau_codex_leak_except_like_4_datasheets/

Link to reddit for almost a complete codex worth of leaks.

It looks pretty legit.

[raceygaming]

I've had a chance to look it over and it's hard to get excited for this codex. Minor kroot buffs and sweeping loss of customization.

A few old HQs got binned which was fair and probably good, minor tweaks to middling units.

[voodoo]

Kroot look REALLY fragile; hopefully they're going to be very light points wise, else I can't see them holding up as an army unto themselves. I get it, they're supposed to be mixed in with the other units in the codex and army at large; but I don't want to run any actual Tau units.

[raceygaming]

I think if you go all kroot you get the 5++ vs shooting and 6++ in melee. Kinda a demon save so if they stay around 6 ppm you might be able to get enough out of them.

I think they will be fun at 500, 1000, 1250 but will lose steam at 1500 and really stuggle at 2000. Getting more of something that can't deal with T9+ or 2+ saves doesn't really help.

[voodoo]

Yeah, the all Kroot detachment; which will punish almost any non-kroot units.. makes me wonder if there's somthing I'm not seeing in terms of what they're able to do, or... if they'll be GSC style, and just play the "I have more bodies than you have guns" route.

I still say their viability is going to 100% come down to points.

[Casper]

From memory - the battle report that Games Workshop did on their premium service was ~500 points of Kroot and it wasn't that many units. So, people are not the most pleased. I'll see if I can find the list.

[Casper]

Here's the list of points pre-changes from the codex: imgur.com/a/VWYsSJg

[cmcd]

Crisis suits are Max 3 per unit. Yes you can take 9 units but the days of 9 crisis in a unit are over. And none of the crisis can take cyclic ion blasters. And they each have 2 weapons each with no increase. (2 weapons and 1 hardware). Uggg

Though the interesting combo would be 3 star scythes with flamers led my farsight in a retaliation cadre. 6D6 flamers Str5 -2ap with +1 to wound. Ignores cover.

Kroot and Hammerheads .

Only 4 detachments…. Hm. Hopefully there are more options hiding elsewhere.



Loving me some tanks right now. Lost longstrike. But sky rays are twin linked now. Over 5 turns that 15 seeker missiles [twin linked] with full rerolls vs fly and 1 reroll vs everything else.

[raceygaming]

There are some shiny new things like stealth suits got a upgrade, it's really tough that crisis lost all the customizations, want sheild gets with flamers...too bad, want 2x sheild drones...too bad. Points show off they want you to use crisis as a trade unit but that's not way I want crisis

[Jack Shrapnel]

As someone who loved the build-a-fex from 4th edition, I can totally get that loss of customization, and feeling that the flavour of the unit gets lost.

At least you're getting multiple version though (sad carnifex noises), and Chris' suggestion for that flamer unit seems pretty potent

[voodoo]

Mar 14, 2024 19:49:18 GMT -5 Casper said:

Here's the list of points pre-changes from the codex: imgur.com/a/VWYsSJg

Oh dear god... I think I just threw up in my mouth a bit... Those Kroot point values make me want to cancel the pre-order for the Hunting pack I have. That's just awful.

I feel like for the Kroot to be successful, they'd all need about a 20-30% point break depending on unit to get into the "viable" range. Rampagers aren't anywhere near worth 130 points for 3 models.

15 T6 wounds with a 5+/5++ (ranged) isn't going to hold up to anything... Just looking at the Kroot rules, I get the feeling GW really doesn't want people taking an all Kroot force.

[Jack Shrapnel]

Well that's a bit extreme. Daemonettes are 110 points for 10 T3 wounds with a 5++ and they're not awful (so as a daemon player if GW gave me a 25 point break, it would make me run a TON of daemonettes). Would I run an entire army of daemonettes? no, but I highly doubt anyone is going to run just pure kroot carnivores either.

85 points for 10 kroot with stealth, a 5++ vs. shooting, scouts, guns (not great guns but the bomb launcher ain't bad) ability to attach two leaders to a big squad - so a shaper for 6+ FNP (conditional 5+ FNP) and sustained hits 1, a trail shaper for redeploy and reactive move, or a war shaper for free strats and a 1/game ignore battleshock?

I mean I'm not thinking 85 points is bad for all that.

Rampagers are just okay, but it's the wound block you're paying for, and the D3 mortals on the charge with 7 attacks to follow up with. That's super similar to bloodcrushers (exact same wording) which are the hottest thing going for some daemon lists right now (sure they're T7 4 wounds, rather than the rampager T6 5 wounds but that's essentially the same)

The rampagers I'd say are just okay because they probably should be 115 instead of 130.

I'd be tempted to build and run a kroot army. Those models are sick.

And if they're not great, or GW wants to push them, they'll just tweak the points.

[raceygaming]

Ya unless tau points get a day 1 update, I think it was conner who said all these points are index points for the most part.
So unless they match to the new points and really make new stuff cheaper it's not going to work.

I honestly thought the kroot lone-spesr was gonna be 65 pts and a lone-op sniper, like admech tallboy, Its 110 so more then the best imperial assassins...

Kroot rampages are 130 for 3, ork squighogs are 125 for 3 AFTER a nerf. Rough comparison of good cavalry to kroot:

Orks

M10" T7 3W 4+/5+++ , sometimes 5++
5x d2 attacks at S6 equivalent -anti monster/vehicle


Kroot

M7" T6 5W 5+ , 5++ in detachment
7x d1/d2 attacks at s6 equivalent


That's a pretty rough look but paints the picture. I have to assume rampages are coming down to 90 points if they wanna see table outside of kroot, or 100 points for in kroot.

[Typhus]

"I wish they'd bring back Kroot as a standalone army."

[Jack Shrapnel]

I think we also have to keep in mind, that the vast majority of codexes in 10th, most codexes are more based on flavour than power. I believe this is intentional as GW are working on this winrate range that they want all codexes in (and aggressively nerf those who go outside it). They also appear to be balancing via points, not changes to dataslates. So even if a dataslate is underwhelming, they adjust with points to make it somewhat more enticing.

I think most codexes people generally feel kind of "meh" about what they get power wise, but end up having additional options on how to run the army for flavour. Sure I might not be totally enthralled with many detachments I get, but I gotta say, what they did for Drukhari with their new one sure gave a new lease on life to the army while they await their codex.

I believe that they have heard the several edition lament of "codex creep" and are actively doing the opposite. That might not FEEL so great when your new codex is inbound and you're ready for your time in the sun, but I think the overall health of the game by not having a crazy power spike every book and subsequent arms race leaving early codexes behind is going to lead to more enjoyment overall.

I was pretty gutted when my beloved nids got their new book and it seemed like a downgrade from the index - initially - but gotta be honest, I play them more this edition than any of the previous ones (except 4th of course when they were my only army lol). It also felt way worse in 9th when the nid codex was WAY too overtuned and it wasn't very fun for my opponents and I got to eat like four nerfs in a row lol.

It's a delicate balancing act, but I think power spike codexes (for the most part) are a thing of the past. They're taking this balance thing pretty seriously this edition.

I get being disappointed (took me a while to wrap my head around some of the nid decisions that seemed right stupid at first) but I think once the codex gets on the table, we'll see some scary competitive and other totally just for fun builds emerge as people figure things out.

I for one think those new kroot models are cool as hell and GW are technically giving you what you asked for, but you know any wish granted by GW though is as Kevin pointed out... a bit of a monkey's paw