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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 13, 2010 20:42:17 GMT -5
I'm a personal fan of judges determining comp... (which means you have to submit lists ahead of time) as they are able to reasonably judge how "cheesy" your army is compared to the others submitted... opponent scored comp would be fine... if they had to score your army BEFORE the match was played
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Post by Admiral Agrippa on Sept 13, 2010 20:46:19 GMT -5
If using comp wouldn't it be better to have a judge/judges score comp for each army? Its still subjective, however, having players score their opponents army always seems to me to create problems. First the opponent may not know the others army that well to honestly make a reasonable judgement and second there may be a tendency to tank your opponents comp if they beat you badly (eg their list must have been too cheesy). What do others think of comp and how it is used in tourneys? I've seen tournies where comp was used but scored by both the non-partial judges and the opponent. If I recall correctly, the opponent's score was weighted in lesser than the score by the judge to help against the unfairness of opponents tanking a list.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 13, 2010 21:08:12 GMT -5
The last Trenton tourney did a good job with comp scoring seemed pretty fair and upfront... I've copied it below from the lost forums (hope that's okay!):
First seven catagories worth 1 point each:
Does the army have a higher Core Percentage than any other single category? Do the units and characters have names or designations etc? Does the Core percentage make up at least 35% of the army? Are Lord choices less than 20%? Are Hero choices less than 20%? Are Rare choices less than 20%? Has the player spent less than 15% on magic items?
Next there will be two areas the players can judge worth 2 points per game for a total of 6 points.
Finally a relative ranking system out 7 points.
This will make composition out of 20 points.
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Post by danydaigle24 on Sept 13, 2010 21:32:39 GMT -5
what about 40K Matt is there a special comp?
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Post by thesanityassassin on Sept 14, 2010 15:20:45 GMT -5
Yes, the Fantasy Comp has been sent to Frank to post up places, the 40k comp is working much the same way, but the chart is still getting toyed with. I'll get it posted ASAP. It's basically going to be a "do you have at least 30% Troops" "Is Troops your single Largest Category?" Do you have more than 30% Heavy Support choices?" kind of thing. I'll finalize and post it up later tonight.
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Edg3ofR3ason
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Post by Edg3ofR3ason on Sept 14, 2010 17:51:38 GMT -5
Just a note regarding the KingCon site: As I'm not sure that it's entirely accurate!
SATURDAY
Confederation Ballroom
Warhammer Fantasy: 10am-6pm
1750-1850 point armies,
Referee: Elizabeth Mullen
$15.00 entry fee.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 15, 2010 5:40:29 GMT -5
Fantasy is on the Sunday... 40K is on the Saturday...
1750 to 1850 eh? that's quite a range ;D
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Post by stonecutter on Sept 15, 2010 7:17:45 GMT -5
The Kingcon website is very slow to get updated. Just ignore it. 40K is on Sat with 2000 points and fantasy on Sunday with 2400 pts.
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Post by thesanityassassin on Sept 15, 2010 9:31:37 GMT -5
Here we have King-Con's scoring systems for 40k and Fantasy! Hurrah, they have finally arrived!
30 points available per player, per game, 15 Hard, 15 Soft:
Draw = 9:9 Minor = 11:7 Major = 13:5 Massacre = 15:3
Soft: Composition: 7 (4 by Organizer, 3 by Players) Sportsmanship: 5 Presentation: 3
I'm doing away with Honor points completely....they have just been making a mess of scoring for too long.
Soft Scores broken down like this:
Warhammer Composition: 4 points of Objective scoring by Organizer:
Is Core the single Largest portion of the Army? Does the Army contain any Special Characters? Are there any repeated Special or Rare choices? Do Lord and Hero choices total less than 40% combined?
40k Composition: 4 points of Objective scoring by Organizer:
Are Troops the single Largest portion of the Army? Does the Army contain any Special Characters? Does less than 40% of the army have an armour value, or a toughness of less than 6? Does the army contain less than 30 % of each of Elite, Fast Attack, HQ and Heavy Support choices?
3 Points of composition scoring by opponent (Warhammer and 40k)
0 - "Ard Boyz special" A very hard list filled with the best troops and a lot of minimizing/maximizing to increase ability to crush its opponents. 1 - A hard army with some minimizing/maximizing that requires at l least some skill to win with.
2 - Nicely balanced list that is competitive but needs good tactics to win. 3 - Well themed and balanced list that requires good tactics to win and one or more significant weaknesses.
Sportsmanship:
Scaling from 5 (excellent game, would LOVE a rematch) through to 1 (could not enjoy this game, would not want to play this person again -- See organizer)
Presentation: 3 points, scored by opponent.
Is the army fully painted? Does it appear as if effort was put into the painting of this army? Would you consider this army to be of above average quality in its painting?
NOTE: Armies that are NOT 100% painted can still score the other two points so long as they meet the tournament required 75% painted.
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Post by danydaigle24 on Sept 15, 2010 12:39:57 GMT -5
I have two questions. If I have a special characters I'm losing a point?... also do we have to give you our list before so you can score it?
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Post by redshirt2375 on Sept 15, 2010 13:03:11 GMT -5
From what I read and knowing how Matt tends to do these things, yes you lose a point for running a special character or rather don't gain the point depending on how you look at it.
Reason being is they usually a more powerful/have abilities that greatly affect the game more than their points cost when compared to a standard choice of the same type (ie HQ)
But I'm sure Matt will clarify it himself
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Post by thesanityassassin on Sept 15, 2010 15:03:30 GMT -5
From what I read and knowing how Matt tends to do these things, yes you lose a point for running a special character or rather don't gain the point depending on how you look at it. Reason being is they usually a more powerful/have abilities that greatly affect the game more than their points cost when compared to a standard choice of the same type (ie HQ) Basically that yes, If you want the exact wording, you GAIN a point by NOT taking one. In the long run, being down a single point of comp isn't so bad if you think the special character will help you, but I do want to at least make SOME downside to fielding them. I've been getting quite a few calls from places to ban them entirely, which is a step I don't want to take, so I thought some "light discouragement" would be in order. As for list submission, please have it in to me at Ecliptica_@hotmail.com by Wed. Sept 22nd for scoring. Please put it in Word, Excel or Notepad format, or just paste it into the e-mail. My computer is in the process of imploding and won't open many other programs.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 15, 2010 15:18:43 GMT -5
From a comp perspective, it certainly makes sense to lose a point for bringing special characters, given they are normally a pretty significant boost over what you can normally bring... Teclis for example, takes a pretty strong army (high elves) and puts it into a power level that many armies just don't stand a chance against... 40k same thing (Mephiston is pretty insane!) not taking a special character means you are voluntarily refusing to take something that gives you more power for points than another choice... if you do this, there should be a comp bonus... it's indicitive of a more friendly list.... ....so now I'll just have to take a grey seer instead of lord skrolk (okay bad example!)
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Post by danydaigle24 on Sept 15, 2010 16:52:14 GMT -5
Well I dont really agree with 40K... I dont care losing a point because I might bring one I'm not sure yet but in 40K they are usually way to expensive for what they doing.... For example Shannon you just said Mephiston is crazy... I dont think so because is alone and have no ward save for 250 pts and you have seen my librarian that kill almost all your army for 195 and hes with a squad and got 3+ invul 2+ save.... but I'm good with that every marine field Vulkan and I think it's fair for people that dont bring one
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Post by thesanityassassin on Sept 15, 2010 23:19:12 GMT -5
In other news, you are able to sign up for the King-Con events on the Nexus website now.
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