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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jul 11, 2020 21:41:34 GMT -5
No I also ordered from nexus. But I didn’t want to order more than 1 box through nexus , so that there would be more available for other people. I figured I’d order the other one on the website. I’m hoping mike gets all the ones that he pre-ordered. (Pessimistic). I hope so... but I'm also hoping there's going to be a second wave of Indomitus releases... would also serve to drive down the price for the scalpers too if all of a sudden it isn't actually as limited as they first thought. It's what they did with the sisters box, so it's a possibility.
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Post by nekekami on Jul 12, 2020 22:18:26 GMT -5
I was talking with him just the other day, and from what I was told he's getting 45 boxes, over the 30 or so preorders he had (on Thursday). He even got a free, extra box that's going to be a release day raffle giveaway to everyone who preordered one.
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Post by trantos01 on Jul 12, 2020 23:47:18 GMT -5
Well between that and the fact that at least some of us are only going to want half a box, there should be enough for the community.
After that, it's painting time and waiting for the relevant codexes to release.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jul 13, 2020 6:07:37 GMT -5
I was talking with him just the other day, and from what I was told he's getting 45 boxes, over the 30 or so preorders he had (on Thursday). He even got a free, extra box that's going to be a release day raffle giveaway to everyone who preordered one. Well that's fantastic news!
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Post by trantos01 on Jul 13, 2020 7:29:35 GMT -5
Goonhammer got an advanced copy of the 9th edition Munitorum Field Guide (point values) to poke at and review. Google cache link in case site is slow like it was for me.
Haven't had time to read through everything but apparently it's split into 'big winners', 'moderate winners', so-so and losers. Copied from the article:
Big Winners: Adeptus Custodes Thousand Sons Imperial Knights Harlequins
Moderate: Death Guard Adepta Sororitas Space Marines* Grey Knights Necrons *With the adendum that Centurion spam lists are extreme Losers.
So-so Chaos Knights Craftworlds Chaos Space Marines Chaos Daemons Dark Angels Astra Militarum Blood Angels Adeptus Mechanicus Deathwatch Space Wolves
losers Orks Drukhari Tyranids Genestealer Cults Chaplain Dreadnoughts. Everyone press F. Or celebrate. Your call, really.
Sorry, Shannon. Looks like the buggy boys/mostly buggy boys are getting left behind again.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jul 13, 2020 7:58:50 GMT -5
well at least I won the lottery of THREE of my goddam armies being in the "losers"... one "so-so" (seriously GW... daemons get hit AGAIN?) and three moderate
at least with this many armies I always have at least one or two that I can make a competitive list
....sadly they're the armies for the most part I only own so that I can bring a list that is somewhat strong... my favourite armies are always on the bottom of the barrel! (you'd think that would make me a better player - it doesn't. Or just give up - I won't!)
EDIT: GW you REALLY hate Aberrants don't you? did you not notice they were never on the table since CA 2019? you had to nerf them again???
...sigh... and greater daemons....
guess you didn't want me using those $170 kits you sold me right?
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Post by Khalai on Jul 13, 2020 8:47:37 GMT -5
Man oh man, time to shelve the DE I guess.
Kabalites going to nine points. Wracks, Wyches and a bunch of other stuff getting above-rate changes as well, Disintegrators going up by ten points, making vehicles mounting multiple disastrously more expensive.
Overall, it really seems like there was math applied to points and little to no thought put into it, outside of a few units.
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Post by trantos01 on Jul 13, 2020 10:08:52 GMT -5
Give them two months and an FAQ etc will probably pop up tweaking the points (again).
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jul 13, 2020 10:14:40 GMT -5
Well for my DE I guess I'll just drop the entire third battalion... saves me painting those 17 models I guess... oh well, 9th basically invalidates 20% percent of my list anyways... so I guess that will be where I get those point savings from.
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Post by Khalai on Jul 13, 2020 10:23:41 GMT -5
Give them two months and an FAQ etc will probably pop up tweaking the points (again). One can hope. And the only real reason that I have hope is due to the sheer weight of public opinion on the internet. Past editions have shown they're willing to sit it out until a codex will fix it. 8th was a breath of fresh air in that they were addressing things much much faster than it took for, say, a new codex to come out. A lot of the big loser armies are the ones that seem to have the mathematical formula applied, then little to no contextual or targeted changes. Unfortunately, this list of armies is well known to be quite low on the priority list for new Codecies and updates, or even reasonable points changes in CA. I get what they were trying to do with theses "get you by" points changes, I really do. I'm just really disappointed they seem to put more thought into the armies that are going to get a new Codex soon. Maybe this is more of a preview of what they are working on as those are working points values in the new books. But, man oh man, I feel awful for the GSC/Nid players where there is a minuscule chance of having a new Codex by this time next year. I feel a little bit better knowing DE is likely before that.
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Post by Khalai on Jul 13, 2020 10:25:25 GMT -5
Well for my DE I guess I'll just drop the entire third battalion... saves me painting those 17 models I guess... oh well, 9th basically invalidates 20% percent of my list anyways... so I guess that will be where I get those point savings from. Talos/Grotesques is funnily enough now the most viable list. Just based on the 3 points in the DE section, the 1200 points of DE in my list I brought to champs is now over 1400.
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Post by cmcd on Jul 13, 2020 11:16:03 GMT -5
All FAQ’s got updated. To bring in line with 9th.
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Jul 13, 2020 11:29:05 GMT -5
I don't believe the hype. I always hate these "winners and losers" lists because they are always done in a vacuum and people always tend to think the worst of these things.
Infantry got more expensive generally because their equipment got baked into their cost. On average for 1W infantry expect to pay 1-3 more points a model. In a 2k strike force with 30-40 infantry models that amounts to ~100 points. Big woop. If you are a horde army, you got hit harder cus your sheer theoretical model count was too high. Firepower is more expensive this edition and you will have less of it, so horde armies which could just fill the table under sheer weight of models needed to get hit hard to ensure it wasn't a viable strategy.
Vehicles got more expensive because they deal more damage now, you can't 'turn them off' by charging them. They are expected to stay in combat and blast away, or be relived by counter-charging units to free them by clearing the unit off (especially ones that rely on blast weapons). It's a whole different mindset to build around. This will make units which can deny over-watch especially expensive.
Monsters getting a points hike also makes sense for the reasons above. Monsters are generally very combat capable and will be able to both shoot and punch enemies off of them, making them rather implacable until you can ratchet that wound counter down into a bracket or remove the threat via focus-fire. This also means a giant horde of monsters will function at near full-combat effective for the first battle round or two almost no matter what, with a few exceptions for glass-hammers.
If I've learned anything going through now 6 edition change-overs in my 40k career, it's that the mindset needs to completely change, and if you try to think of 9th as 8.5 (which we all will be for the next ~6 months), your lists will show it.
Press delete on your list building tactics, and start over. That's the message from GW.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jul 13, 2020 11:56:49 GMT -5
Yeah looking at what they've said, GSC (which was only marginally viable under very restrictive spam of one model the ridgerunner) is hit the hardest, and It's hard to not be bitter about this. The way detachments work (GSC are restricted to no duplicating characters in a detachment) in 9th already hit them hard. This is just insult to injury. It was already a very, very frustrating army to play for the past year since the repeated nerfs and the existence of space marines and tau. So feel free to not believe the hype Ray, but I've seen what they've done to this army since initial release (when they were strong) to what they are reduced to now. (less good infantry guard / lascannon ridgerunner spam). As the owner of a LOT of GSC, which cost me over a grand to build, I am pissed by how this army was treated, and wish I would have just waited to buy them (got too excited when the amazing looking models were released) although if I would have waited just a year after release, I never would have bothered. As the owner of a LOT of Tyranids, it's hard not to be likewise down about this, as the majority of their units were not viable by the end of 8th... again a "just for fun" army. And as Justin said, I'm likely looking at a year of no updated codex for either of these armies. Don't get me wrong, I'm a HUGE fan of 9th core rules and new missions. But these two armies in particular are hit very, very hard by just a blanket "throw them through the forumula" approach. Their codexes simply didn't function properly by the end of 8th, and will be even harder hit in 9th. And Ray, with all due respect, that's not how monsters en-masse work in the game. I know this because I run them constantly in my daemon and tyranid armies. You are literally at a disadvantage bringing them over a dread that costs half the points. As the goonhammer article said engine war almost made a bloodthirster viable, and they couldn't have that! A space marine / eldar army can easily erase two nid monsters a turn (ie: nearly 400 points of the army) and that is best case scenario for the tyranid player. That was the case playing yesterday on a smaller table, packed with terrain, with malanthrope coverage (-1 to hit) and malceptor strategem giving -1 to strength of all shooting weapons targeting any monsters in the aura. Monsters are not viable currently in the space marine / tau / eldar meta. I am hoping that a new codex will change that, however that's what I've said repeatedly since 4th edition with the tyranids. We got close once (when flyrants were a thing) but that was quickly nerfed. Literally nothing they could do to the chaos daemon codex could make it worse, so I'm hopeful that something could come out of that! (the codex as is doesn't even have a good portion of the models in it!)
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Jul 13, 2020 12:32:33 GMT -5
I don't dispute those armies might be hard hit. Nids/GSC seems to always get the butt of the sick joke that is the nerf bat. I know being a Nids player is like getting kicked in the junk every 2-3 months. Sorry if you're feeling a bit thrown under the bus by my comments.
What I'm trying to say about Monster-Spam might be a bit dated at this point, so I'll defer if you think it's not a problem. I just see the reduction in firepower coming from most vehicles/tanks going up in price significantly and I can't help but think we're gunna see a pretty heavy reduction in ability to simply leaf-blower a 16+ W T8 chassis off the board with ease. Even as an Eldar player with access to things like Doom and Expert Crafters, I don't see removing multiple Russes or T-fexes being as easy as it was 2 years ago. I'm not saying it won't be possible. I'm saying it's going to take more points of units to achieve the same result.
The overall formula for 9th seems to be reducing offensive output and increasing defensive durability via terrain and shortening the range of engagement to making combat a bigger threat to shooting-only-leaf-blower lists. So it's completely changed how I approach building a list from beyond initial steps of "ok, what primary HQ and 3 troops am I taking for my battalion".
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