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Post by raceygaming on Dec 19, 2020 0:40:34 GMT -5
So since GW can’t seem to put out an official ruling I was hoping to get some ideas of how everything we know interacts for Reactive Countermeasures. There is a big debate if the rule apply to every model in the unit that has the AFP or if it only applies to a single model in the army even if its in a unit.there is no official ruling or agreement online. Here is what we know:
FAQ/Errta from 05/10/2020
Q: Do reactive countermeasures replace the model’s airbursting fragmentation projector? A: No. The ability gained is in addition to the weapon (which can be fired normally)
This is the only FAQ they gave of the prototype system.
From the Greater good Supplement
Pg. 36 “…you can instead select a Prototype Weapon System for one T’au Empire unit from your army. To do so, before the battle begains select one T’au Empire unit from your army, and select a Prototype Weapon System from the list below. That Prototype Weapon System applies to the selected unit until the end of the battle. …” Pg. 36
Reactive Countermeasures BATTLESUIT model with airbursting fragmentation projector only. Ranged Weapons with an Armor Penetration characteristic of -1 or -2 are treated as having an Armor Penetration characteristic of 0 when resolving attacks against a model with this weapon system.
So Overall, It does not replace the weapon, it adds the additional rules, it applies to the UNIT, and models with the AFP get the special rule. I think this means might like the way the shield generator wargear is worded that ANY model in the unit that has a AFP get the Reactive countermeasures and the singular in the prototype is meant to apply only to the model with the AFP to stop a unit from only taking 1 and gaining the benefit. (like take 1 model with a shield and then claiming everyone get the 4++)
Thoughts? Trying to get a local ruling.
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Post by cmcd on Dec 19, 2020 2:03:21 GMT -5
My opinion is that if you have a unit of 9 crisis suits and 4 of them have airbursting fragmentation projectors (AFP). Then by those wording that rule only effects those 4 models. When taking a save for those models AP -1 ,-2 count as zero.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 19, 2020 6:17:20 GMT -5
looks like any model taking it gains the advantage. but giving it on one model wouldn't confer to the whole unit. You would need to take it on every model you want to benefit from it.
I mean it's right in the description "BATTLESUIT model with airbursting fragmentation projector only" you have to have it to benefit.
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Dec 19, 2020 8:43:55 GMT -5
looks like any model taking it gains the advantage. but giving it on one model wouldn't confer to the whole unit. You would need to take it on every model you want to benefit from it. I mean it's right in the description "BATTLESUIT model with airbursting fragmentation projector only" you have to have it to benefit. I was going to also point this out, the rule specifically says MODEL. So the whole unit would have to have 1 each to benefit that way I believe. It's coolness factor of creating a giant wall of flakk/shrapnel to block incoming fire is pretty freaking cool tho. (if only the ABFP didn't kinda suck....)
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Post by dave on Dec 19, 2020 9:40:01 GMT -5
The tau groups that I'm in seem pretty consistent in their interpretation of this relic.
Like all prototype systems, the upgrade applies to every model which is equipped with an AFP.
The extra rule is applied when making saves for any of those models.
Like a shield gen, if you want to take advantage of the prototype rule, you must allocate wounds to that model. Once all suits with an AFP are dead, additional saves are resolved as normal.
So just like when we add a shield gen, or iridium upgrade to a unit, slow roll the saves so you don't roll more than the minimum needed to remove the model with the special rule.
It looks like everyone agrees on this. I'm wondering how these "debates" come up? I have seen some absolute cheese lords in those tau groups though. Any twist for an advantage I guess.
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Post by raceygaming on Dec 19, 2020 14:39:18 GMT -5
Ya I put it into play vs Shannon today and it did not feel overpowered at all. I'm glad that the local area agree with my reading of it, but just wanted to check since there was a lot of "only 1 model would get the ability" even if more than 1 have it.
Any way I think I'm going to play around with Tau and see what I can come up with that is both fun and good for Clubs
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Dec 19, 2020 15:24:14 GMT -5
I'm glad that the local area agree with my reading of it, but just wanted to check since there was a lot of "only 1 model would get the ability" even if more than 1 have it. Yeah I don't know what those people are smoking. It pretty clearly says on the Prototype Weapon Systems table that you select a Tau UNIT to have one of the prototype weapon systems. Some of them (actually many of them) seem to apply to a specific model type, as well as with a specific armament. So it seems pretty clear to me. People don't argue say a unit of Broadsides don't all benefit from the Magna Rail Guns do they? It's the same thing.
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Post by raceygaming on Dec 19, 2020 15:37:12 GMT -5
All the prototype weapons say " replace each weapon with..." since it's a replacement not a additional rule. The wording is very poor but I still agree when you stick it all together each model with the AFP gets the ability no question.
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Post by dave on Dec 19, 2020 15:39:28 GMT -5
Ah I get you. I was thinking the debate stemmed from people saying the bonus rule would apply when making saves with models that did not have the prototype while another in their unit did (like claiming the shield gen 4++ for an entire unit while paying for 1).
But yeah, like the broadside rail rifle upgrade, the whole unit benefits. That's what made the tau take on these "relics" appropriately thematic to me. These aren't storied weapons passed down through the chapter, or twisted by a powerful daemon, and wielded by a hero. They are upgrades to current tech, produced in a limited capacity to be field tested by regular squads.
Looking forward to hearing about how your efforts to make tau competitive go! I haven't been in to play a game of 40k in some months now, but I'll admit my first impressions with 9th made me feel like it would be a really fun system if only I was playing another army. I will however gladly take any tips or advice from better generals than I, haha.
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Post by Khalai on Dec 19, 2020 15:52:50 GMT -5
Let's not pretend Tau don't need all the help they can get right now either.
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Post by voodoo on Dec 22, 2020 9:51:47 GMT -5
Let's not pretend Tau don't need all the help they can get right now either. In 6th & 7th, if I read those words; I would have assumed you were high as a kite. I feel we're seeing a reverse pendulum effect from the Tau's 6th/7th abuse factory. Their main export became the only import.
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