Need clarification on hit bonuses and negatives

[StepwisePilot]

Ok, so now that I've worked out the basing scheme (And may have even decided on a colour scheme), I'll start assembly soon. Since I don't actually have anything so much as put together yet, this is likely getting ahead of myself, but a question popped into my mind.

So, I am aware that in 9th edition you can't have more than a minus one or plus one to hit (Does this also apply to things like saves, wound rolls, leadership/morale rolls, etc?), regardless of how many bonuses you get. That's fine by me. Here is what I need clarified though:

Say Model 1 that says "Enemies have -1 to hit this guy", or something like that. And lets also say that your opponent  (Model 2)has a buff that gives them a +1 to hit. If they attack the guy that they get the -1 to hit with, it just evens out and is a straight roll with no bonuses or negatives (At least, to my understanding). However, lets say that Model 1 is being buffed with an additional -1 to be hit. He still maxes out at -1, and the rules state you can't go above a -1 or +1. However, when Model 2 attacks him with their +1 to hit buff, it once again cancels out. Would the buff on Model 1 still kick in, and turn the resulting modifier of 0 into a -1 again?

Basically, can you store extra penalties/negatives which can then be used to cancel out other penalties/negatives? In the example above, there was two -1 to hit modifiers, with one +1 to hit. Would that second -1 be stored since it can't be used normally, and thus activate if the first get canceled out, resulting in the total modifiers to be -1 for Model 2 to hit Model 1?


I hope this isn't worded weirdly. I tried to express myself as best as I could. 

[LizardTau]

Yes you do all the + and - math and then at the end it maxes out at +1 or -1

[StepwisePilot]

Alright, thank you.

[raceygaming]

Ah yes the Ghostkeel affect, A model that has a baked in -2 to hit when the cap is -1. So you are losing 50% of your special rules.

[Jack Shrapnel]

well it counters +1 to hit a little bit at least

(but I feel ya, deathleaper's -2 is useless)

[StepwisePilot]

While I'm here, is it only hit rolls that have the cap, or do other rolls also have a cap? I'd imagine wound rolls do, but what about morale? What about oddball cases, like rolling to see if a vehicles explodes, but for some reason you add 3 to the roll. Do you only add one to the roll in the vehicle example?

[raceygaming]

As far as I the only cap is on to hit rolls, as in 8th there were some units that physically weren't targetable cause they were -4 to hit meaning you needed 2+ in order to need 6s to hit.

Its gonna be pretty rare that you will have more than one ability that will give you +1 to wound but if you do its a go, but rolls of 1 always fail so 2+ is as good as you get.

Armor has no cap for example cover, storm shield and spell is +3 to saves, then take off the AP of weapon, again a 1 is always a fail so 2+ is the best you can do.

Invul don't have a cap in the amount of +1 you can add but I believe a invul can never be improved beyond a 3++. So for examples Rubric marines have a 5++, get the spell for +1 for 4++, use the strat for 3++, but THEN can't add anything else cause of the cap.

[Frosty the Pirate]

Both TO HIT and TO WOUND rolls are capped by -1/+1 rounding effects.

Saves, psychic casts/denys, etc are all unlimited, with the exemption that Invulnerable saves have never be improved to be better than 3+ mentioned above. HOWEVER, I also _believe_ armour saves cannot be improved beyond 1+ (FYI, a 1+ save means only unmodified 1s fail, as a natural 1 can never succeed)

I'm 100% sure about everything except the 1+ save cap, if someone could verify that I'd appreciate that.

[Typhus]

There is no cap on armour saves or invulnerable saves. Most special rules which modify invulnerable saves will specify that the bonus caps at 4+ or 3+, but not all.

Armour saves can be improved by quite a bit - a Custodian with a Storm Shield, in cover, benefits from (essentially) a 0+ armour save.

Do note there is an enormous difference between save modifiers and the save characteristic - a save characteristic of 1+ will only ever fail on a 1, regardless of AP. A Terminator with a Storm Shield has an EFFECTIVE save of 1+, but it's actually a 2+ save rolled on d6+1. Huge difference, due to the way modifiers work.

[StepwisePilot]

In regards to the -4 to hit example, wasn't the rule that natural 6s always succeeded, just like how a natural 1 is always a fail? Or am I mistaken?

[Jack Shrapnel]

yes, unmodified 6's succeed and 1's fail.

[raceygaming]

Dec 22, 2020 23:41:15 GMT -5 StepwisePilot said:

In regards to the -4 to hit example, wasn't the rule that natural 6s always succeeded, just like how a natural 1 is always a fail? Or am I mistaken?

In 8th edition 40k that was not the case with the exception of orks due to a special rule. It was a lawless time of crazy modifiers and impossible rolls.

1s have always failed but 6s did not always hit/wound. The idea was -4 from 3+ ment you need 7+ on a die 6 which was not possible.

Now in 9th they introduced the unmodified 6 roll so 6s always hit and 1s always miss and also with the no more than -1 also helps.

[StepwisePilot]

Dec 23, 2020 8:14:40 GMT -5 raceygaming said:

Dec 22, 2020 23:41:15 GMT -5 StepwisePilot said:

In regards to the -4 to hit example, wasn't the rule that natural 6s always succeeded, just like how a natural 1 is always a fail? Or am I mistaken?

In 8th edition 40k that was not the case with the exception of orks due to a special rule. It was a lawless time of crazy modifiers and impossible rolls.

1s have always failed but 6s did not always hit/wound. The idea was -4 from 3+ ment you need 7+ on a die 6 which was not possible.

Now in 9th they introduced the unmodified 6 roll so 6s always hit and 1s always miss and also with the no more than -1 also helps.

Ah, I guess I got the rules mixed up or confused. Thanks for the clarification.