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Post by trantos01 on Mar 9, 2021 9:42:37 GMT -5
In terms of secondaries, Ancient machines has actually carried the day for me multiple times. Since you can select one of the three special objectives, you just need to pick one where a small unit (Cryptothralls, min size immortals, min size scarabs etc) can hide and proceed the mine the thing for points all game.
The other one (purge the vermin) I've found to be more hit or miss. If you can box the enemy into their own deployment zone (so you have at least half the map free) it's pure gold. But against a more agile/aggressive opponent or if you're running a gunline force, it struggles.
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Post by voodoo on Mar 9, 2021 10:43:51 GMT -5
I feel like Ancient Machines is another one where you have to box your opponent in. Shannon was able to crank the Droidekkas into range of the objective and shut down Ancient Machines pretty handily. I think I only got it twice in our whole game.
You're 100% right though, Purge the Vermin would work with my army, but the table quarter deployment was a gamble that didn't pay off. Oh well, chalk it up to the learning curve and enjoy the game I had!
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Post by trantos01 on Mar 9, 2021 12:04:31 GMT -5
I admit I haven't really played with 'Raise the Banners' much since it's the same objective type as AM so I can only take one or the other. But in the tournament even when I was getting taken apart by the Custodes, I basically maxed out the AM objective since I selected a site that was neatly hidden by a terrain piece which my Cryptothralls hid behind.
Sure Banners doesn't need a unit babysitting the objective but you'd need to plant 3 to get the same 'income' as you'd get in one turn from AM. As with everything it depends on your army, the enemy army nad the battlefield.
The one secondary I haven't tried out is the 'Treasures of the Aons'. Opponent selects 3 objective points and you get VP at the end of your turn by holding them. 2 for one, 3 for two and 5 for three. I don't like it because aside from requiring very good board control, it's essentially allowing your opponent to dictate where you are going to be focusing your attention.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Mar 9, 2021 12:52:50 GMT -5
Anytime you take a secondary where your opponent chooses where you have to go, I think that's not a great idea!
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Post by voodoo on May 3, 2021 15:14:33 GMT -5
Edit #2, Because apparently; I lacked the ability to add properly in the previous iteration, and I had to make some big changes.
Necron Battalion - Custom Dynasty - Eternal Conquerors (units gain obsec) - Relentlessly Expansionist (pre-game 6" move)
HQ: Skorpekh Lord (Warlord) - Enmitic Annihilator, Flensing Claw, Hyperphase Harvester - WLT: - Thrall of the Silent King - Relic: - Nanoscarab Casket
Technomancer - Staff of Light, Canoptek Cloak - Relic: Voltaic Staff
Technomancer - Staff of Light, Canoptek Cloak - Relic: Veil of Darkness
Troops: 15x Warriors - Gauss Reapers 15x Warriors - Gauss Reapers 5x Immortals - Gauss Blasters
Elites: C'Tan Shard of the Nightbringer Canoptek Reanimator Canoptek Reanimator 6x Skorpekh Destroyers - 2x Hyperphase Reap Blade, 4x Hyperphase Threshers
Fast Attack: 5x Canoptek Scarabs
Heavy Support: 3x Lokhust Heavy Destroyers - 3x Gauss Destructors 3x Lokhust Heavy Destroyers - 3x Gauss Destructors
2000 Points 9CP
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on May 3, 2021 16:39:40 GMT -5
chronomancer is better than the technomancer... gives those Skorpekh destroyers a 5++ invul and allows them to reroll charges - pretty essential for making them work.
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Post by trantos01 on May 3, 2021 23:06:58 GMT -5
Well if you want a babysitter for multiple large units of warriors and Immortals, Szeras is potenialy better than a Cloak-tek and a Reanimator (comes to the same cost actually at 160). Main advantage is that he can do a buff for T, BS or WS on them(RNG but you have a 66% chance of getting a good one) and he can bring back two different units per turn.
And yeah, a Technomancer doesn't help the destroyers at all since they only have three wounds (and the cloak's d3 heal is really more for vehicles) while his Rites of Reanimation can only effect core units (which destroyers are not).
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Post by voodoo on May 4, 2021 6:37:23 GMT -5
I had thought that the sound thrashing my warriors took, they'd be better off with a little help from another Techno, so my one doesn't have to try pulling double duty rather than thinking he'd be babysitting the destroyers. Mind you, I know that they're a hot target, but they weathered the fire tossed at them fairly well by sitting in cover.
The idea of Szeras is an interesting one for sure...
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on May 4, 2021 7:29:11 GMT -5
warriors can have a trap though of trying to invest more points in keeping them alive than just getting more warriors (which incidentally also keeps them alive more ) delicate balance in how much support you buy them. Szeras has some really good buffs and is essentially two crypteks so I'd think he'd be worth considering. Plus cool model, so there's that too!
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Post by voodoo on May 4, 2021 8:19:09 GMT -5
Edit #lots, New army, new ideas from the folks who know it much better than I do; thanks Shannon and Jonathan.
Necron Battalion - Custom Dynasty - Eternal Conquerors (units gain obsec) - Relentlessly Expansionist (pre-game 6" move)
HQ: Overlord (Warlord) - Warscythe, Ressurection Orb - WLT: - Immortal Pride - Relic: - Sempiternal weave OR Voidreaper - I'm a bit torn between more durability, or the ability to smash just about anything when he inevitably gets into combat.
Illuminator Szeras - Eldritch Lance, Impaling Legs
Chronomancer - Aeonstave, Chronotendrils - Relic: Veil of Darkness
Troops: 15x Warriors - Gauss Reapers 15x Warriors - Gauss Reapers 5x Immortals - Gauss Blasters
Elites: C'Tan Shard of the Nightbringer Canoptek Reanimator 3x Skorpekh Destroyers - 1x Hyperphase Reap Blade, 2x Hyperphase Threshers
Fast Attack: 4x Canoptek Scarabs 4x Canoptek Scarabs 4x Canoptek Scarabs
Heavy Support: 3x Lokhust Heavy Destroyers - 3x Gauss Destructors 3x Lokhust Heavy Destroyers - 3x Gauss Destructors
2000 Points 11CP
The idea is to lean into Domination and Ancient Machines or scramblers depending on terrain. Maybe While we stand, we fight or the situational Bring it down/titan slayers/abhor depending on the army across from me.
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Post by raceygaming on May 4, 2021 10:18:57 GMT -5
So I'm definitely feeling this list a little more. While the Destroyer lord is a cool model and project it is definitely more of a display piece right now. (I kinda of feel the same way with the Lokhust heavies as well, I think GW missed an opportunity to have the Destroyer lords give CORE to other destroyers in his detachment.)
Is there a strat or ability to make the Lokhust more consistent? they hit pretty good with re-roll 1s and wound on 3s against most of the hard targets you want them for. Unfortunately they seem to be weak at dealing with transports just because they are low volume and transports tend to be cheaper then the unit.
Also I do see the Overlord issue of the offence vs defence. Might I suggest another slightly different option that lets you get both worlds and is a model I'd love to see your take on it. The catacomb command barge!! So it is 180 pts but you get +7" movement to be where you want and are defensively character protected with T6 W9 on a 3+/5++ , can't be wounded on 1-3 with strat to get to 4++. WLT: enduring will is -1 damage to really help make the most of W9. Grab the Void reaper, Phaeron and Rez orb for some early game utility, then late game he can zoom off and beat stick people, bully small but tough units off points. Also and this is just a little preference you can put the telsa gun on him to get access to that mortal wound arcing strat and save 5 pts.
Also I know they are unpopular models in general but I think this list could use a some Tomb blades, they are very fast at 14", are core for buffing, can do buckets of dice and are pretty tough with the Shieldvane/neubloscope load out. With that movement can get "My Will" , zoom up board to mid object early then drop lots of S6 shots on 2s. Also I think tomb blades(bikes in general) are prime models for some cool 3d printing accessorise or 3rd party design.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on May 4, 2021 11:57:12 GMT -5
Yes, there's extermination protocols for the destroyers if you need it, however rerolling 1's to hit natively is pretty good, they just struggle slightly with the whole one shot weapon thing. Especially when you're playing with some dense terrian or other ways to get -1 to hit.
Catacomb command barge is miles ahead of an overlord (and you still get command protocols and MWBD effect). Adds mobility, survivability and the ability to actually be a threat.
I might drop a couple of the heavy d's to be honest (if you haven't bought them all already - then nevermind!) I think with the style of list you're running another 140 points could be extremely useful. Cryptothralls for actions, upgrade the overlord to a command barge, sprinkle in some more warriors, etc.
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Post by raceygaming on May 4, 2021 13:28:03 GMT -5
This is a tweaked version of something I build up when I was seriously thinking about collecting Necrons at the start of the edition. I had to change out some of the stuff cause points on Nightbringer went up a bit since then and I wanted to keep some of the elements that you seemed to focus on.
Battalion -8 cp start
1 Command Barge w Phaeron, Voidreaper, Rez Orb, Telsa Cannon. WLT: Enduring will ( -1 damage) 1 Chronomancer w Entropic Lance 1 Royal Warden - Veil of Darkness, Immortal Pride
5 Immortals w Gauss 20 Warriors w Reaper 20 Warriors w Repaer
1 Nightbringer w Sky of falling Stars 5 Skorpekh w 1 Reap-blade, 4 Hyper
5 Scarabs 5 Scarabs 5 Tomb blades w Shieldvanes, Particle Beamers, Neubloscope
3 Lokhust Heavy Destroyers
Idea is some very solid mid rush units for early game pressure/objective plan, really good back line that push out and keep board control and a few deadly melee units that can be screened or obscured as they move around the table. A little bit of Heavy fire to keep big stuff from running wild or popping key transports.
Veil on Warden is to keep the option of a really aggressive push that cant be tagged and pinned cause they can always fall back off a counter charge.
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Post by voodoo on May 4, 2021 14:49:59 GMT -5
Necron Battalion - Custom Dynasty - Eternal Conquerors (units gain obsec) - Relentlessly Expansionist (pre-game 6" move)
HQ: Catacomb Command Barge (Warlord) - Warscythe, Ressurection Orb, Gauss Cannons - WLT: Immortal Pride - Relic: Voidreaper
Illuminator Szeras - Eldritch Lance, Impaling Legs
Chronomancer - Aeonstave, Chronotendrils - Relic: Veil of Darkness
Troops: 19x Warriors - Gauss Reapers 15x Warriors - Gauss Reapers 5x Immortals - Gauss Blasters
Elites: C'Tan Shard of the Nightbringer Canoptek Reanimator 3x Skorpekh Destroyers - 1x Hyperphase Reap Blade, 2x Hyperphase Threshers
Fast Attack: 7x Canoptek Scarabs 7x Canoptek Scarabs
Heavy Support: 2x Lokhust Heavy Destroyers - 2x Gauss Destructors 2x Lokhust Heavy Destroyers - 2x Gauss Destructors
1997 Points 11CP
Here's what it looks like without the other Heavy Destroyers. I don't like the idea of losing those 2 shots, as I find them very swingy in their damage when they're only firing one shot; but having more bodies to blob onto things is kinda gross. The only piece I may change is splitting the scarabs down into smaller units of 5, and removing a single warrior to get 3x units at 5 bases each. Large enough to take a beating, but small enough to hide well.
Conversely, I could put 9 into a mega unit and then have a shadowy 5 base slide up a flank while the Chrono buffs the bit unit that jams up the middle for some hilarity.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on May 4, 2021 15:06:23 GMT -5
This is a MUCH more effective necron list.
you have speed, the durability of larger units for scoring primary, still have anti-tank capability and speedy units to get around the board and problem solve.
I'm not sold on the reanimator in this list to be perfectly honest. (I own 3 of them and have painted them and I struggle to make an effective list with them that just isn't better with something else). 80 more points of warriors might do better and end up being more warriors than a reanimator would bring back over the course of the game (as they're not exactly difficult to kill). Having a unit eliminated completely means no reanimation at all - will the reanimator save five warriors worth? maybe it will. maybe it won't. Or you know you could get two units of cryptothralls for two more units that can do actions and hide on a hidden objective without affecting your mid-board / attacking presence.
I wouldn't run scarabs less than 6 models unless they're hiding on a backfield objective.
I use my double unit of nine to push forward very aggressively. Four wounds, living metal and reanimation makes them surprisingly durable, and the obsec you're giving them, the pre-game move, and their inherent built in speed means you can really use them to box shooting units in. Their auto-wounding on 6+ to hit means the more scarabs you have in a unit, the more you can push into things and trade up surprisingly well (also for 1 CP you get to auto-smite a unit in combat at the cost of one base - ie: the wounded one that is probably going to die anyways).
I like the double units of 7 idea... I wouldn't necessarily go down to fives as I think you'd lose more than you gain from the extra unit, which you can get cheaply elsewhere (cough cryptothralls)
I think this is a good list though, and really my suggestions at this point are just small adjustments or things to consider if you think about shifting things around. I think it will work well as is.
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