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Post by Malarks on Apr 2, 2021 12:11:55 GMT -5
<grumbles>
Why am I only just now realizing one may take more than 3 Elites in a Battalion? I am just a little confused and frustrated, as I would like to be able to have up to 5 Fast Attack (without having to make a specialist detachment) as opposed to Elites...
I don't know.... Why is it like this?
</grumbles>
(Admittedly, without the Legendary units, I only have 3 Fast Attack units... So it shouldn't really be an issue..)
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Apr 2, 2021 12:27:04 GMT -5
add a patrol... opens up 2 more fast attack at the cost of an HQ and a troops (which are both really solid). If you're already taking a batallion with likely three characters anyways and you don't want a fourth, just slide one over to the patrol. Now you have five fast attack slots total and only costs an additional 2 CP rather than 3 for an outrider detachment.
Or because you're orks and have cheap and effective choices in all the force org slots, switching to a brigade costs you no extra CP (free just like a batallion) but now you have TONS of options.
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Post by Malarks on Apr 2, 2021 14:46:21 GMT -5
Yeah, that's a fair point.. I could kick up the points to 3000 and fill out a Brigade nicely.
I am also trying to shoe-horn far too much "flavour" in to my lists. The idea had been Badrukk in a Battlewagon and followed by all of my Fast Attacks (Bikers, Deff Kopta, War Buggies, War Trakks and a SquiggBuggy) so it would likely work best to put together a Brigade.
Just farting around in Battlescribe, tracking the stuff I have painted and that was when I noticed that one can have so many Elites, but not as many Fast Attack.
I always seem to struggle to reconcile my own wants and needs vs. working within a system or with others...
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Post by voodoo on Apr 3, 2021 18:28:28 GMT -5
I believe they did it because of the new prevalence for solo elite buffing "units". If you have 3 characters taking up all of your elites, then the elite slot gets full VERY quickly. By adding in 3 more spots to a "basic" force org, they remove the need for people to double down detachments.
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Post by Malarks on Apr 4, 2021 7:47:58 GMT -5
I see the reasoning behind what you mention, yeah, though I wonder (using similar logic) why they haven't given us more Fast Attack slots because of how many armies there are based around being fast (Speed Freeks, Drukhari...Okay... There has to be more than that, right?) Someone building a Speed Freeks list (for example) would still need the fancy extra detachment if they wanted to fill out more Fast Attack slots (without doubling down on Troops)
*Dons tinfoil hat*
I wonder how many Single Model Units the Space Marines have, compared to other races? Is GW just making life easier for them?
Should a new Force Org category be created for SMU's? (Runtherds don't count towards force Org slot filling - precedence)
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Post by Malarks on Apr 4, 2021 8:03:08 GMT -5
Dreadnoughts... Space Marine SMU Elites are all Dreadnoughts... Okay, there's an Apothecary and a character, here and there, but the majority is just dreadnoughts.
Where would Assassins land, in the FOC?
Space Marines (and Ynnari) are the only faction(s) with more than 10 options for Fast Attacks, as well... Xenos all range from 1 to 11... So I guess there's little to support my idea for expanded Fast Attack...
I don't know what I am talking about....
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Post by StepwisePilot on Apr 4, 2021 8:48:23 GMT -5
I think the assassin's fall under "agents of the imperium", and requires a cp spent to include them in the list. At least, this is my understanding based on battlescribe.
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Apr 4, 2021 9:01:17 GMT -5
Specialty armies like Ravenwing, Craftworlds Saim Hann, and other hyper specialized factions have traditionally recieved support to make their armies work properly. Should our almighty game designers see fit to grant these blessings to a particular faction or sub faction, it will be fine.
Like was mentioned above, the easiest way to grab more slots is either pay 2CP for either an auxiliary support detachment which gives you one extra of any slot you want with no requirements, or using a Patrol Detachment which requires an HQ and a Troop but unlocks 2 of every type of slot.
I definitely feel the same constriction you are feeling every time I crack open the Craftworlds catalogue. Craftworlds has an extremely crowded Heavy Support slot and a 3CP tax to unlock more than three of them is absolutely brutal. Add in on top that a couple of those choices like Fire Prisms quite literally require taking at least 2 of them to use some of their abilities.
Force org definitely presents some challenges, especially since the massive paradigm shift at the start of 9th.
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Post by Malarks on Apr 4, 2021 10:21:50 GMT -5
At the end of the day.................... If I am just playing with friends..... Why even bother with this stuff? Give us both equal CP and trust that we'll both not build lists intended to ruin fun and just go off points limits (hell, why not even PL?)
I keep trying to force my style in to "Matched Play", or whatever, and it just doesn't work.
What sort of support had the specialist armies gotten, in the past? Stuff like what can be found in Chapter Approved?
With regards to specialist detachments, I am fine with taking one (so long as nobody minds me subbing a Nob on Warbike for a Boss on Warbike).... I am still just... Miffed... About the extra Elite slots... For whatever stupid reason..
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Apr 4, 2021 11:03:35 GMT -5
Well that's what narrative and power level is for. Already exists in the rules, you certainly do not have to play matched play at all.
The elite slots being higher in a battalion is there for a reason (much like how troop slots are larger as well as dedicated transports, which have the highest limit of all!) the variety of different force org detachments that exist can let you play any army you'd like, so I'm not seeing an issue at all.
As per the issue with unlocking more heavy support slots for craftworlds - bring a brigade - zero CP cost. Or a Patrol - 2 CP cost gets you an extra couple, or a spearhead - extra SIX for 3 CP.
You generate a CP every turn, so you're essentially having SEVENTEEN as opposed to 8th edition where unless you were detachment spamming, you'd have like 5-6? You get more CP than ever, and more ways to unlock detachments which give you variety.
The way they changed force org detachments is WAY better than previous editions, where you got benefits for just bringing multiple detachments spamming the best stuff from a slot, which is why in previous editions those that could abuse this dominated, while those that couldn't were left in the dust.
The current system has resulted in by far the most balanced edition of the game, where literally any army can compete. The ones who have their 9th edition books are of course at an advantage, as they are in any edition (because they have more options and their books are already meshing with the new system). However most recent GT's saw craftworlds do amazing, even Tyranids hit a fifth place, and orks have been consistently placing despite the fact that they have not had a new book this edition.
If you don't want to play matched play - don't. If you are playing with friends and want to not use a force org - do whatever you like. 9th edition literally lets you do whatever style of game you want. You can literally make an "unbound" army of just whatever models you want, using power levels as relative balance (so one person doesn't have double the power of the other!). It's already present in the rules.
The reason people play matched play is because it is the most balanced version of the game that doesn't allow the nastier garbage to just dominate - as in a tournament, or playing against a random opponent - if you said people can just play whatever they want, they'd throw all the crazy efficient things on the table without having to take the stuff they don't want. The structure of the game is there for balance. But if you're playing vs. a like minded individual who just wants to throw down some models and roll some dice - it's literally already in the rules that you can do this so do it and have fun!
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Post by Malarks on Apr 5, 2021 11:30:12 GMT -5
Now to just find someone willing to travel to Scarbadoodle-doo to play with, whom is willing to work out some fun/balanced narrative play....
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Post by voodoo on Apr 5, 2021 11:41:00 GMT -5
Now to just find someone willing to travel to Scarbadoodle-doo to play with, whom is willing to work out some fun/balanced narrative play.... Maybe there's a community there that you could connect with and ask these questions. Like the Scarborough Games Society www.scarboroughgames.com/wp/Or Boardgame Bliss www.boardgamebliss.com/ |
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