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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Oct 10, 2021 9:29:16 GMT -5
Read through goonhammers review this morning.
My hot take is I have a strange gut feeling this supplement is over hyped that I can't shake.
There's plenty of cool stuff here and lots of power combos available. But looking at their suggested list section, I cannot help but feel like this Codex is going to cause a lot of "too many toys not enough boys" syndrome.
There are just so many little things that cost a few points here, and a few points there. Over the course of a list that adds up to significant margins.
The secondary objectives are also quite disappointing compared to the other supplements. Unclean Idols is essentially unusable, the requirement of a chaplain nearby makes it hot garbage. Carry out your vows is essentially a harder version of Grind Them Down that maxes at 12VP if you don't take a Vow every game, and will likely frequently conflict with your opponent's list meeting the requirements if you build around a specific vow. Bathe Your Blade is the only somewhat good one because you can have Helbrecht just wreck someone's face hole, but even that has its downfalls against certain factions.
I think it will be a fairly good codex overall. By no means do I think it's weak or underpowered. But that goonhammer review feels a lot less like a independent competitive review and a lot more like the best things you can say about a middle of the pack codex that has been over hyped and needs to sell well to support the vast release of several expensive new kits.
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Post by Typhus on Oct 11, 2021 11:49:22 GMT -5
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Oct 11, 2021 14:14:00 GMT -5
that relic is absolutely bonkers... reduce all incoming damage to 1?  on a character like their bike chaplain example? I want the exact same thing for daemons and tyranids please. Seems fair right? I'll even forgo the mini-transhuman. |
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Post by cmcd on Oct 11, 2021 21:46:25 GMT -5
that relic is absolutely bonkers... reduce all incoming damage to 1? on a character like their bike chaplain example? I want the exact same thing for daemons and tyranids please. Seems fair right? I'll even forgo the mini-transhuman. Well your daemons and nids aren’t protected by the Emperor…. So.. not likely…. |
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Oct 12, 2021 5:50:11 GMT -5
lol... oh right, I forgot that part  |
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Post by voodoo on Oct 12, 2021 11:51:48 GMT -5
I wonder how that relic interacts with the Thousand Sons one that ignores all abilities that reduce the damage of an attack? In the same breath, I'm trying to figure out how Necrons would be able to do anything to that guy shy of just feeding him units all game, hoping for bad rolls and/or some amazing RP's.
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Post by Typhus on Oct 12, 2021 13:23:29 GMT -5
The wording of the Black Templars (and Sisters) relic is "changed to 1" - which is a replacement effect, not a reduction. The Orrery does nothing in this case.
As far as Necrons, the large Lychguard blocks that show up in most competitive lists would do a number on a Bike Chaplain - being D1 anyway, with a good number of Attacks and high Strength.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Oct 12, 2021 13:39:16 GMT -5
3 attacks each, assuming My will be done for WS2+ and FNP for the bike chaplain also assumed 10 lychguard have 30 attacks, 25 hits due to MWBD, wounding on 3's (lets assume no transhuman or it's even worse) means 17 saves for the chaplain. 9 FNP's so likely 7 wounds caused, just killing him. So yeah, it looks like that could work. So long as you have 10 lychguard all charge him. I'd think a C'tan could work as well, couple c'tan powers for the mortals, then charging in for 5+ attacks that ignore invuls to finish him off (or nightbringer to bypass both the invul and the FNP) Sure we're talking about a 280 point and a 350 point unit to kill a 115 point character (and not guaranteed by any means) but you know, that's what it's like being xenos  |
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Oct 13, 2021 8:25:49 GMT -5
Yeah, Tannhauser's Bones should basically read "you should smite me" because Mortal Wounds are the only bypass for that absurdity. Becoming pretty clear to me that having some ability to create mortal-wound-output is a pretty key piece of a well-rounded force, and some factions (like Necrons mentioned above) will struggle with that, since they have fairly limited options, while other factions like Leviathan Nids, TSons, GK, etc, will all essentially laugh as they blast you with psychic powers, and then cry later when the Abhor The Witch score appears on the scorecard.
Hammer of Wrath style abilities for charge-phase-wounds could also be an option, but with the Primaris Chaplain on Bike setup if you need to roll vs toughness that's a bit harder thanks to T5.
It definitely inverts the formula, you're looking for either high volume, or high accuracy attacks, enough quality to wound on a decent number, and a pip or two of AP to force the Chaplain to his invul.
Lighting Claw Van Vets definitely strike me as a points-effective option for generation of that kind of attack profile, and D1 on lightning claws with reroll all wounds should make them _one_ of the most effective non-mortal wound routes.
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Post by lightcavalier on Oct 13, 2021 10:53:49 GMT -5
Dont forget that he is ignoring 1/3 of all incoming mortal wounds (because plack templars natively shrug MW on a 5+)
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Post by voodoo on Oct 13, 2021 11:59:57 GMT -5
Dont forget that he is ignoring 1/3 of all incoming mortal wounds (because plack templars natively shrug MW on a 5+) I don't think anyone's forgetting that; it is still a more reliable road to take than "regular" wounds. If all you have to go through is the 5++ vs mortals instead of 3+ to wound, then armor/invul, then damage reduction, then FNP. Mortals at least sit there as a stack of individual instances of damage which he has a single opportunity to get rid of each. |
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Nov 15, 2021 9:50:56 GMT -5
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Post by LizardTau on Nov 15, 2021 10:06:11 GMT -5
Omg gw proper finally made a set of dice with only one symbol. I'm amazed.
(Looks back at my expensive limited iron hand dice I never used cause they suck, but looks at my forgeworld ones that are amazing)
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on a character like their bike chaplain example?
