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Post by dave on Dec 2, 2021 11:57:38 GMT -5
This is what I'm leaning toward for the tournament. I wanted to play all painted, but the monsters were a late addition to my collection, and I feel like I'd be missing out if I didn't bring some while we're in Ghur (why wouldn't I want to give my opponent free points?).
Shaggoth - hailstorm, general (adamantine scales), relic (amulet of 5+++), monster
Great Bray Shaman - tendrils of atrophy
Beastlord - relic (arcane tome) flaming weapon
Battleline Gors x10 Gors x10
Ghorgon- monster Bestigors x10 Bestigors x10 Bestigors x10 Tzaangors x10 Tzaangors x10
Chronomantic Cogs
1500 pts
Grand Strategy- predator's domain Triumph - irrelevant
I've got wounds, and I've got speed. Maybe turning the beastlord into a wizard will actually see him become useful? Mostly these guys are hoping to look cool and then die.
These will be my first games with the ghorgon, shaggoth, and cogs.
Edit: using warlord battalion for the 2nd relic, and the 3 units of bestigors are going into Hunters because it's the easy choice.
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Post by warhammerwilly on Dec 2, 2021 12:55:32 GMT -5
So many beasts!!! This looks incredible, I can't wait to see all this on the table!! Sounds like a pretty decent set up! 👌 you'll be smothering your opponent in bodies
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 2, 2021 13:46:06 GMT -5
Looks super fun to play
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Dec 2, 2021 14:59:26 GMT -5
Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice
Consider maybe blobbing up some of the beastigors/tzaangors? They may not fight great but your odds of winning a combat are much bigger with reinforced units
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Post by dave on Dec 2, 2021 15:44:32 GMT -5
I have tried them in larger blobs. Mostly just means more guys standing around outside of attack range, and then running away due to battleshock. I've had a little more success pushing them forward in waves, so my opponent can overkill a unit, while a fresh one lines up. It's less about killing, and more about dying more slowly. This is the way of the Beast.
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Dec 2, 2021 16:01:17 GMT -5
Are they on 25s or 32s? Worth considering that even with new coherency, 25s can string out in a straight line and always fight in two ranks with 1" weapons
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Post by dave on Dec 2, 2021 16:41:30 GMT -5
They are all on 32's. Only ungors are on 25's, and no amount of optimism is going to make them killy haha.
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Dec 2, 2021 18:41:31 GMT -5
Oof yeah 32mm bases and larger sure do suck on 1" units.
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Post by dave on Dec 2, 2021 21:07:53 GMT -5
The issue of reach is definitely something I'm hoping they address in upcoming battletomes. Even bullgors are 1" on their 2-handed axes. That's just silly, and there are lots of other examples like that in other books. Across the board 1" was standard in the past, but it's just really punishing with the new coherency rules.
The other rebalance I'd like to see for a lot of old armies is bravery. Beasts were designed around having the bonus that came along with having a large unit. Since that's gone, blobbing up is mostly just forcing yourself to spend a CP to avoid the test.
Beasts shouldn't be tooo hard to make run, but when the standard is 5 and my "elite" bestigors are only a 6, it's a bit tough to keep them on the field.
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Dec 3, 2021 8:38:28 GMT -5
Yeah they need some love for sure. Although I think unfortunately the weapon ranges are probably locked in. A ton of stormcast units have been hamstrung for many years thanks to being on 40s with few reach weapons, and in the new book one of their classic reach weapons actually went -down- to 1" on the evocator. On top of new coherency it's not looking good for those types of units.
Not sure how GW is going to adjust for it honestly.
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Post by Typhus on Dec 3, 2021 9:50:50 GMT -5
Yeah they need some love for sure. Although I think unfortunately the weapon ranges are probably locked in. A ton of stormcast units have been hamstrung for many years thanks to being on 40s with few reach weapons, and in the new book one of their classic reach weapons actually went -down- to 1" on the evocator. On top of new coherency it's not looking good for those types of units. Not sure how GW is going to adjust for it honestly. Reject Sigmar weapon ranges. Embrace 40k engagement rules.
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Dec 3, 2021 10:04:02 GMT -5
The dream...
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Post by dave on Dec 3, 2021 11:54:27 GMT -5
Would be nice to follow 40k in this. I get that they wanted more granularity with the melee ranges, and to make reach on spears and things matter, but in practice it's mostly just a pain.
3rd is also the Age of MSU, and I don't think it's a coincidence that so many of GW's design choices have pushed people into that playstyle. I doubt we will actually see much in the way of incentive to run anything larger.
So while there are definitely units out there that will do well when reinforced (shooting, extra reach, legitimate tarpits), I'm not sure anything in the current BoC tome qualifies.
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Dec 3, 2021 12:04:55 GMT -5
Yep. All feast or famine. You have 30 man blocks of phoenix guard where every model can fight because 25mm base with a 2" weapon, and then you have... anyone on a 32 or 40 who can get like 3-4 bases in range lol.
I genuinely hope they go back and do something inside the scope of 3rd, because the new coherency rules are just so massively punishing to units that already had serious problems. Poor ogre gluttons...
Actually you know what would be a super easy fix? Hybridize it- you can fight if you're X close to guy in X range, or you can fight if you're in range of your weapon. That way everyone can fight in two ranks which is the core issue right now.
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Post by StepwisePilot on Dec 5, 2021 0:05:01 GMT -5
Ghorgons are the giant, 4 armed, monster bulls, correct? They look awesome. And really, that's the important thing. If you lose, you can at least say you did so with style. Also, you are a very good painter from what I've seen of your models, so I'm sure it looks great.
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