Progress

[Malarks]

Managed to play a few games of 40k recently that did not end up in me feeling like a pile of crap...

~Not feeling rushed has been nice. As well as having a more developed understanding of the rules has also helped (and the relaxed pace has helped foster that development)
~I am slowly gaining some form of grasp of secondaries (it is still a hell of a mess of overwhelming amounts of information to process while still fighting against a defeatist attitude)
~Starting to slowly make concessions in my list building to have the toys I want to play with, but also having the tools to play the game (such as a Trukk loaded with Tankbustas - which is very much not "my meta")
~Been chatting with a couple of members outside of the forum and they have been very patient with me and my... Malarkey... But it has been helpful and I am slowly progressing. (hence the concessions in my list building, etc)
~Not facing down a force that is going to grind me in to the ground has also been helpful - feeling like I have any chance at all has been a huge boost to my ability to keep from losing grip on myself.. It is so frustrating that my own anxieties and problems are to the point where even playing games is an arduous experience of self-control and managing triggers and traumas. ("Well, thomas, why don't you get some therapy?" Listen, you do not want to be cracking open that can of worms and just live with my saying it ain't gonna help - I've tried.)

Shit's not so bad... But it is going to be a long time before I feel I can manage to play a game of 40k at Nexus again (3h is too cramped a timeframe and events are so much worse (for myself)

Played a game last night in which my Tankbustas (11 in a Trukk) were able to knock out a Redemptor in a single salvo and it was an odd experience for myself... 
~ An attack "succeeded" and did significant damage
~ I was able to eliminate a whole unit in a single round, with a single unit's attacks
~ I was able to take out a Dreadnought (a unit I am usually used to having my 'ead wholesale krumped in by)
~ Dread exploded and did a pile of mortals to surrounding units...
~ I felt like ecstatic at my sucsess
~ Having been in the exact position my opponent was in and knowing how demoralizing it was for myself, I felt like utter shit
~ I worried that I had ruined their game
~ I pulled back and made "sub-optimal" choices to offset my success
~ opponent assured me things were fine, but I still remembered what it was like and had difficulty shaking the feeling

I had had a slight lead in points scoring through the first 2 rounds and I felt guilty about it and wanted our points to be more balanced... Though, they ended the game with nearly twice my points, so it was not a problem for long.



Anyway... Feeling a bit better about playing 40k, in general, at least...

[StepwisePilot]

I'm glad to hear that you had a good time.

[Hi I'm Derek]

And may there be many more, if you like

[Malarks]

Hey... Hey! HEY!!!

If'n losing is supposed to be such a big problem for me...

Then explain to me why Dark Souls is my favourite game? (Video games and board game)

Eh?

Bet'cha can't explain that one!

Yeah!

Neither can I!




Anyway...

[Hi I'm Derek]

An interesting question, but I would posit this: the challenge (single player) Dark Souls presents is fundamentally different from a player vs. player game. Losing is just a delay. A hard boss is purely a matter of having the time and the tenacity to keep trying until you succeed.

If 40k was like Dark Souls you would spend 10 hours playing the same tough opponent over and over until you figured out how to beat him, and they would never adapt to you or improve their play or their list.

Dark Souls PvP on the other hand, in that you get the tar kicked out of you unless you are prepared, geared to win and practiced. And when the fight is over it's over. I would say that's actually relatively similar to a competitive warhammer experience

[Malarks]

Oh, yeah, solo/offline Dark Souls is just a rhythm game of measured aggression and not a great comparison for playing 40k. And I am no stranger to PvP in Dank Memes, either.

If you want to break that down, I have spent a fair amount of time reflecting upon my reactions while playing (far easier than with 40k, given the privacy of my room and brevity of the encounters - minutes as opposed to hours+weeks for turnaround between encounters) and I get most frustrated when facing hackers/cheaters (been playing long enough to be able to recognize when shit ain't right, in Dark Souls) - which has not really got an equivalent* for the local community (*we all know there are folks around who don't quite play the game appropriately, regardless of their vaunted knowledge of how to play, but those people are afar-between minority) which then brings up the situations of "Not having the tools to deal with the situation at hand to the point of barely being a participant in the exchange, other than to provide a dummy to be beaten upon" (which, for myself, has felt very relevant to playing 40k) The difference is that in Dark Souls, you can quickly and easily end an encounter like that by submitting and then you reload the area and get back to playing... Whereas in 40k... People stop playing with you if you scoop when you have lost the game and are merely there to remove models from the table for your opponent... Sometimes in Dark Souls I can make shit work through skill or luck (most often luck) that would sort of be equivalent to making a good call on positioning or die rolling one way or the other.

Which comes back around to, within the context of 40k, my inability to create a list that can keep up with even the casual scene in the Kingston area. The units I have found to be "cool" have more often been far from "optimal choices" (and then we can go on and on about Secondary Objectives choices... Gonna wait for this big rules-patch before I dive back in to learning this mess)
[shrugs]
That is really [one of] the biggest hurdle, I suppose - My inability to comprehend the objectives minigame and building/playing around that while I am trying to learn to balance offence/defence within my list for simply engaging the opponent (provided they are a Space Marine, cos they are the only other faction that I have even a fraction of a clue as to how they play...)

And the train has jumped the rails...

I think I might have said something of substance in there.... Someplace.... >_>


EDIT: Dunno if I mis-clicked, or what, but I did not mean to "strike-through" that last paragraph when I first posted this

[dave]

A lot of that makes sense. I always show up to 40k and AoS assuming I wont win, but sometimes I do. I look for the cool moments, and hope at least a few plans work out, even if the grand strategy was doomed to failure.

I definitely identify with a lot of what you're saying since 9th edition though. Honestly it started with playing against the SM 2.0 book at the end of 8th. My dudes just weren't playing on the same level. With 9th, they aren't even playing the same game. I can show up and go through the motions, but is anyone actually having fun?

Beyond the power level disparity, the objective game was just kind of the bridge too far for me. In 40k, all the choices seemed bad, and having to know which 3 to pick wasn't a lot of fun. My army is my army. I don't have that many extra models in a 2k game. I'm not building lists around secondaries, I'm trying to pick secondaries that work with what I have, and yes I know that's wrong.

At least in AoS I'm picking from a much more general list, and I pick the objective on a turn by turn basis. I don't need to predict how the game will play before the first roll off, like 40k, I can just react to what's happening right now and think a turn or two ahead.

My dudes are getting a new 40k book soon, so hopefully they end up being more fun than they have become, but I'm still not that excited to get back into 9th and try to learn the objective game.

[Hi I'm Derek]

Dec 19, 2021 20:59:24 GMT -5 dave said:

I'm not building lists around secondaries, I'm trying to pick secondaries that work with what I have, and yes I know that's wrong.

This is a tangent but this is why secondaries are one of my least favourite things about 9th. There's too many, in total and per game, and they have waaaaaaay too much influence on the complexion of matched play, deciding which armies and which units see use. I pine for the days where missions could be interesting because players didn't have to keep track of 8 concurrent vectors of scoring and a primary more complicated than 'stand on the point' wouldn't short-circuit the average brain.

[Malarks]

Not a tangent at all! Totally relevant to us learning how to play the game! Secondaries are over-whelming and tough to tackle (at least, as a "new player")

I would love a good ol' stand-up and knock-down fight (if I felt [my] Orks could manage to do that! XD)

But the game does need some sort of "easy mode" ("easy" with regards to load on the ol' grey) for new players to ease themselves in to the game. There is *so much* to keep track of through a game, let alone the scoring vectors!

Rawr!

[Hi I'm Derek]

I'm looking at a pile of almost 20 counters for my club champs list that only tracks targeted buffs. It's... a bit much.

[Malarks]

slowblink.gif

[dadeathskulls]

I totally want to run a gretchin ork list. I know it will likely not win anything but a couple hundred gretchin with some mek guns and a few herders etc might be funny to play.

Painting that many may be an issue though