Open Topped Transports & Orks

[Frosty the Pirate]

Bit of a strange one here. Was hoping some of the resident rules experts could weigh in.

Scenario:

A unit of Lootas are embarked in a Trukk. The Trukk is currently within engagement range of an enemy unit. The Lootas and Trukk are both Blood Axes faction.

The trukk falls back during the movement phase and ends it's movement >1" from any enemy models.

During the shooting phase, the Lootas use a combination of the Blood Axes rule (allowing fall back and shoot) and Open Topped (shooting while embarked) to fire their weapons.

The trukk itself does NOT fire any of it's weapons. Only the embarked unit shoots.


Question:

Is the Trukk, with the Lootas still embarked, able to Charge in the charge phase?



So far everything I can find implies that YES, indeed the trukk can charge. The trukk itself did not shoot during the shooting phase, and the lootas are considered off-the-battlefield and are not considered to be charging in the charge phase, so no one unit is violating the blood axes explicit "fall back and shoot or charge but not both" rule.


Thoughts?

[Malarks]

okay... The idea of repeatedly [Ramming Speed] a BattleWagon laden down with wildboyz firing their dakka in a glorious death-blossom is all sorts of glorious WAAAGH!! energy.

[LizardTau]

Edit. Never mind didn't read it all I guess lol

[Frosty the Pirate]

Jan 21, 2022 14:29:02 GMT -5 LizardTau said:

Edit. Never mind didn't read it all I guess lol

Yeah, it's tricky. The only thing I can find is this section from the rare-rules section is this:

If a restriction applies to the TRANSPORT model, that same restriction applies to units embarked within it. For example, if the TRANSPORT model is not eligible to shoot with because it has Advanced or Fallen Back this turn, its passengers are not eligible to shoot with.

However, the Blood Axes faction rule fixes by allowing the unit to shoot after falling back.

The Lootas unit inside isn't considered to be on the battle field because of the transport embarkation rules and hence aren't the unit being declared as charging (even through it would seem it is implied by being in the charging transport).

There's also nothing in the transport rules sections stating that a transport would be affected in any way by the restrictions of it's contents. For example, it's fully legal to advance with a unit, end your movement within 3" of the transport, embark, and then the transport is able to charge still because while the transport conveys it's movement onto it's passengers, there is no rule stating the passengers convey their restrictions onto the transport.

[Frosty the Pirate]

Jan 21, 2022 14:58:43 GMT -5 Frosty the Pirate said:

Jan 21, 2022 14:29:02 GMT -5 LizardTau said:

Edit. Never mind didn't read it all I guess lol

Yeah, it's tricky. The only thing I can find is this section from the rare-rules section is this:

If a restriction applies to the TRANSPORT model, that same restriction applies to units embarked within it. For example, if the TRANSPORT model is not eligible to shoot with because it has Advanced or Fallen Back this turn, its passengers are not eligible to shoot with.

However, the Blood Axes faction rule fixes by allowing the unit to shoot after falling back.

The Lootas unit inside isn't considered to be on the battle field because of the transport embarkation rules and hence aren't the unit being declared as charging (even through it would seem it is implied by being in the charging transport).

There's also nothing in the transport rules sections stating that a transport would be affected in any way by the restrictions of it's contents. For example, it's fully legal to advance with a unit, end your movement within 3" of the transport, embark, and then the transport is able to charge still because while the transport conveys it's movement onto it's passengers, there is no rule stating the passengers convey their restrictions onto the transport.

I cracked it I think.

The restriction on the transport of "it may shoot or fall back" is the same condition being checked on both it and contents.

it's not "the transport can fall back and shoot or charge" AND "the unit can fall back and shoot or charge" it's "the transport and it's embarked unit can fall back and shoot or charge"

If so, then the combined actions of the transport and it's contents would be considered for charge eligibility based on the restriction condition applied to the transport via the Blood Axes rule.

[Typhus]

That's my take on it as well.