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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Jan 26, 2022 13:14:52 GMT -5
youtu.be/uxLFtjJLVIII spent like 3 consecutive months ribbing Typhus that when the points updates finally arrives, DG would get a bunch of nerfs across the board. We had a sensible chuckle because we figured at the time even GW wasn't so out out of touch as to nerf a B- faction that had been falling further and further behind with every release. Just look at all the love Necrons are getting! I even bought two battleforces and dug into the faction myself! Surely, I thought, at a minimum plague marines will become cheaper. Surely such a change would be a shoe-in even if everything else stays the same. Surely
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Jan 26, 2022 13:16:37 GMT -5
Maybe... maybe they'll notice and fix it in the dataslate thing!
It's not impossible, right?
...Right?
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Jan 26, 2022 13:25:55 GMT -5
The Foul Blightspawn was an auto-take, it was getting nerfed pretty much no matter what. Auto-takes always get nerfed.
Blightlords and Deathshrouds didn't really get hit _that_ hard.
Poxwalkers were extremely spammable at 5 points, and very strong screening/board control.
Try playing the new missions with the old points & terminus est build and you'll quickly see why this got pre-emptively nerfed. It's extremely good at the new missions imo.
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Post by Typhus on Jan 26, 2022 13:28:55 GMT -5
This disgusting resilience does not protect my feelings.
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Jan 26, 2022 13:30:39 GMT -5
This disgusting resilience does not protect my feelings. if you're looking for a silver lining, Plague marines are inherently much better now because almost everything else got worse.... Does that help at all? |
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Post by Typhus on Jan 26, 2022 13:33:50 GMT -5
This disgusting resilience does not protect my feelings. if you're looking for a silver lining, Plague marines are inherently much better now because almost everything else got worse.... Does that help at all? They're not. That's spurious logic. Plague Marines are exactly as poor as they've always been - you can't make them better by nerfing other options in Death Guard. All that accomplishes is making the faction worse - especially as Plague Marines compare so woefully to identically-pointed Incursors and Rubric Marines. |
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Jan 26, 2022 13:41:39 GMT -5
if you're looking for a silver lining, Plague marines are inherently much better now because almost everything else got worse.... Does that help at all? They're not. That's spurious logic. Plague Marines are exactly as poor as they've always been - you can't make them better by nerfing other options in Death Guard. All that accomplishes is making the faction worse - especially as Plague Marines compare so woefully to identically-pointed Incursors and Rubric Marines. -pats Typhus gently on head- You wanna get some ice cream? -Typhus shakes head no- You wanna take a dump in the false-emperor's shoes? -Typhus slowly nods- Let's go take a dump in the false-emperor's shoes. |
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Post by raceygaming on Jan 26, 2022 13:48:57 GMT -5
I will say that I did expect plague marines to come down to 19 ppm. I figured that a T5 ork is 9 ppm x 2 to get to 18 ppm and then add a point for the 3+ save. At 19 ppm I think they would be an interesting option and being sub 100 mean that just 5 plane marines could still be good.
The other big thing is that plague marines have the dumbest rules for special weapons, I understand that they want what comes in a box to be good enough but god let them have a bunch of plasma or blight launchers or flails etc. they are paying for it with points, if you want 5 flails then take 5 and pay a bunch of points for it.
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Jan 26, 2022 13:50:56 GMT -5
Now it doesn't apply to me or Typhus (I mean yes, he WAS going to play this army and now never will again, but he already had the zombies), but I feel really bad for anyone who got conned into buying units to build terminus est. That army has been essentially euthanized by GW. I know that's always the risk when playing a 'formation' force but damn...
I think if you were picking army lists to just eject from the game for balance reasons it would be a very long time before you hit terminus est. I disagree strongly with the notion they were 'too good' with the new missions (poxwalkers can't even do actions!) but even if they were, there's no way they'd have even made it back into top tier - there's just too many other issues with the force and too many terrible matchups in the upper tiers.
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Post by raceygaming on Jan 26, 2022 13:51:56 GMT -5
I will say I feel no sadness for the poxwalker, the fact that it was a 5ppm model that was fearless was pretty crazy. looking at grots for orks, the poxwalker is crazy good. for fearless I'd happily pay 7 ppm for them. Its just go good to have a unit that can just take the hits and not care, as long as you have 1 alive its still obsec.
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Jan 26, 2022 13:59:26 GMT -5
The entire A-tier of armies got completely ripped apart by this update. The reigning TSons, GK, Admech, and Sisters builds are completely invalidated and massively neutered by the subfaction change alone, let alone what changes those factions have received in points changes both via CA and the November Dataslate.
DG did get nerfed a little overall, but it was really only the Terminus Est build in particular that was kicked very hard because all of these units being very efficient at what they did for their points was why that build was particularly a standout one for the DG.
Does DG deserve this nerf? I don't know. I'm not a playtester, but GW has been getting much better with their balance changes so they had to have seen something in the data that said this was necessary.
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Jan 26, 2022 14:12:40 GMT -5
The entire A-tier of armies got completely ripped apart by this update. RemindMe! 30 days |
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Post by Typhus on Jan 26, 2022 14:22:08 GMT -5
The Poxwalker nerf is fine. I would have sooner put a cap on the number of Mortal Wounds caused by Mutant Strain, but this is fine. Everything else is more problematic. Death Guard were offered nothing to pivot into. That leaves a sour taste in my mouth, considering the comparative states of AdMech and Dark Eldar. -pats Typhus gently on head- You wanna get some ice cream? -Typhus shakes head no- You wanna take a dump in the false-emperor's shoes? -Typhus slowly nods- Let's go take a dump in the false-emperor's shoes. Piss off. |
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Post by Frosty the Pirate on Jan 26, 2022 14:32:20 GMT -5
I'll admit that came off more pointed that I was intending. I genuinely was trying to be funny with that family-guy bit.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jan 26, 2022 14:34:04 GMT -5
I'm thinking the only thing that needed to change was 5 points for a poxwalker was a little too cheap.
But the rest of the changes? boggles my mind. Not necessary by any stretch at all. DG didn't need a nerf. If anything Plague Marines needed to come down in points, I think that's pretty much a given compared to any other options (even with them being T5). 20ppm would have made them be a reasonable option I think.
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