Balance slate

[Jack Shrapnel]

Here's goonhammer's take on the new balance update thing:


www.goonhammer.com/the-q1-40k-balance-dataslate-and-faqs-analysis-and-hot-takes/

[Frosty the Pirate]

Has there been a game balance update where there _wasn't_ drukhari nerfs since their dex lol?

Thicc City absolutely deserved that nerf, imo they were maybe even a little gentler about this one than they could have been. Hopefully "normal" lists that were bringing like 2x2 Talos are still good, it would pain me to see such sweet models not see table time.

Everything else seems to make perfect sense other than the fact the internet is still arguing about the transport disembark changes. My read of it is that it really only affects situations like Blood Axes who can get remain-stationary after falling back for example. I don't think it breaks anything other than some really niche plays that aren't likely to happen in actual gameplay.

[Jack Shrapnel]

well the DE build is gone competitively. Loss of Core is a straight -1 toughness nerf to Talos/Chronos, and they can't heal and don't even benefits from strats that even mention Talos in the strat! Plus the build depends on taking two coven obsessions which you cannot anymore. So it's done. And yeah, rather than write a balanced codex, they just slam the nerf button every update to change what you can bring, or what is good or not.

I have a dark eldar army, and due to a combination of covid and all these multiple changes they haven't hit the table, because frankly rebuilding and re-figuring everything is just a pain. Hopefully they're done messing with the army now so I can actually build a list! (and no, I never was building dark technomancer spam stuff - I only actually own one chronos)

The transport thing is more for ardent shroud retributors. But don't worry, that edge case and the other no-mixing restrictions means you will never see argent shroud anymore. I kind of agree with Goonhammer, I'm not sure sisters really needed back to back multiple nerfs when they aren't even doing well competitively! It's like the recent death guard nerfs... what problem are you actually solving with this stuff?

To be absolutely clear in the lead up to clubs in two weeks, Trukk boyz works as intended. I need to stress that because that is my ruling for all local tournaments I run, including clubs.

[Frosty the Pirate]

One thing I've learned about game-design/balance playing so many different game systems over the years is that you can't confuse "not performing well competitively" with "performing above expected efficiency".

Effectively GW isn't just nerfing the clearly OP stuff at this point when issuing their balance changes. I know we all like to believe they are just drunkenly throwing darts at a board sometimes when we open the book/pdf/etc and go WTF?!?! but the reality is there is _something_ in the data they've collected showing that something needs a change. One common misunderstanding is that "stupid" decisions are made for no reason, usually those decisions are actually powered by very specific or difficult-to-explain reasons by actually very intelligent and informed people, it's the lack of justification for a change that usually frustrates the masses. The assumption we're too stupid to understand why a nerf/buff/change happened.

Most of us would accept the balance change(s) made the to game balance a lot easier if we had a longer explanation as to _why_ the change was made and what influenced GW's decision. Unfortunately GW is _just_ starting to understand that.

When I used to be big into Wargaming.Net games like World of Tanks/Warships when it was more popular, almost every major patch/update with gameplay/balance changes came with a 10-20 minute developers-commentary video that would explain a lot of the changes, what they changed, and why they decided to change it in that way, and what influenced their decisions. This is what GW _should_ start to realize they need. Not everyone is going to watch or understand it, but it allows that extra layer of transparency that keeps the more engaged folks like us understanding their decisions and would eventually build trust within the community that the balance team isn't on a weekend bender again.

[raceygaming]

Feb 7, 2022 10:17:17 GMT -5 Jack Shrapnel said:

The transport thing is more for ardent shroud retributors. But don't worry, that edge case and the other no-mixing restrictions means you will never see argent shroud anymore. I kind of agree with Goonhammer, I'm not sure sisters really needed back to back multiple nerfs when they aren't even doing well competitively! It's like the recent death guard nerfs... what problem are you actually solving with this stuff?

I think for the Argent shroud are actually one of the first casualties of the new Tau Codex. I think this was a reaction to the Farsight Fish for fury list that were starting to be developed. The Issues was that with Farsight getting a marker light at 12" and hitting on 3s, 1 cp to re-roll 1s. They had with MONT'ka:

9" (pre-game move) + 12" (move) + 9" (disembark+ move) + d6" (advance) + 8" guns (breachers) = 39"(min) threat range for breachers on 3+ to hit re-roll 1s.
With the changes you can't advance out the devilfish otherwise you are -1 to hit so only on 4s (5s for non farsight). since you will take the -1 for advance since you count as moving even with Mont'ka since you disembarked. Does it do alot?

No but it does cap the crazy push at 38" rather than 44", and hitting on 4s or 5s to get that extra distance should stop the all in rush to a certain extent. It also stops Strike teams from advancing at all out of a transport since it will turn off the rapid fire.

[dave]

Just to add to the transport ruling, this will also affect the new fish of fury. It stops move, disembark, and advance with breachers without penalties to shoot, even with mont'ka active.

Edit: beat me to it.