|
|
Post by thatguythere on Dec 11, 2022 22:32:12 GMT -5
Hello!
So I was playing some friendly games, trying to wrap my head around rules & movement, and few questions came up.
Particularly with Carnifex, but also some other Tyranid units, they don't "fit" where their bases would. We particularly ran into this when Old One Eye tried to charge around a corner to join a fight, involving a Tyrranofex. Between claws and protruding guns, the MODELS didn't quite fit, although the bases clearly did.
We just shimmied everyone into place, but that required moving figures that weren't moving, which didn't feel legit. For casual play, since Old One Eye wasn't being specifically screened out, it worked, but - is that a legit thing? "I stand somewhere you model doesn't fit so I'm safe" feels a bit cheesy, but moving other figs didn't seem right, either.
...
A little bit related: Can a really big model, like - as a purely random example - the Heirophant stop in a position where it's straddling a wall, or cargo container? I know it can't stop with a figure under it, but I feel like, if it can't straddle walls, it's movement on most boards would be pretty tricky ...
Thanks! I'm new, AND just took a 9 month plus break, so I appreciate the help!
|
|
|
|
Post by Typhus on Dec 11, 2022 23:56:44 GMT -5
So, the Hierophant has a rule that says if it doesn't have a base then you and your opponent have to agree on what the bounds of its base would be, and GW's recommendation - you can't then place its 'imaginary base' on top of, or intersecting with, terrain. So, no, the Hierophant can't really straddle terrain features - indeed, it's usually rather impossible to move such large models around on a standard battlefield. GW clearly thinks of these models as unsuited for standard play.
Technically speaking, in the same way that you can't deploy a model with parts overhanging the edge of the battlefield, I think the assumption is that the model itself needs to be able to fit in order to be moved, and not just its base. It's kind of a grey area, being something not really described in the rules. That said, I think most players in our community would happily nudge the terrain a little if their opponent's model just about fits.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 12, 2022 7:21:01 GMT -5
Generally when I set up terrain for a board I make sure that there are lanes of movement for anything that would be around the size of a landraider (t-fex would fit into this as well) so that both players can play the game no matter what they bring. A Heirophant is... just impossibly big for a standard board, and it cannot go into ruins / impassible terrain. So unless you're specifically setting up the table for the big guy to move around, he generally can just sit there because he's so big. And that's if you even have a spot to deploy it! As a tyranid player who loves big monsters... if your base cannot fit, the model cannot go there. If claws/spikey bits whatever are in the way, but the base fits, it's okay to kinda fudge it a bit rotate the model, say "this is where it is but the stupid giant tentacles means it is going to not fit" ie: this abomination of a design: www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Toxicrene |
|
|
|
Post by Jack Shrapnel on Dec 12, 2022 7:24:08 GMT -5
oh and for the truly giant models:
from the Core Rules FAQ
DEPLOYING LARGE MODELS
Some large models, typically Aircraft, have wings and other parts that extend significantly beyond their base, this can make it difficult for them to fit wholly within a mission’s deployment zone, and whilst the deployment sequences of mission packs clearly state that no part of the model can overhang the edge of the battlefield, the edge of your deployment zone is not mentioned. For clarity, such models can overhang a deployment zone if it is not possible to set them up otherwise (i.e. if it is not possible to set them up without them overhanging their deployment zone), but when setting them up on the battlefield their base must still be wholly within their deployment zone.
|
|
|
|
Post by thatguythere on Dec 12, 2022 7:25:14 GMT -5
As a tyranid player who loves big monsters... if your base cannot fit, the model cannot go there. If claws/spikey bits whatever are in the way, but the base fits, it's okay to kinda fudge it a bit rotate the model, say "this is where it is but the stupid giant tentacles means it is going to not fit" ie: this abomination of a design: www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Toxicrene... that's literally the figure I'm about to magnetize, and I was thinking, "aren't these tentacles a placing & storage nightmare?" |
|
|
|
Post by thatguythere on Dec 12, 2022 7:38:29 GMT -5
Thanks for that!
Follow up question: For the purpose of measuring distance, does the Harridan have a base, or does it measure from the hull?
|
|
|
|
Post by sean on Dec 12, 2022 10:11:09 GMT -5
The Harridan is on a flyer base, so you use that for all measurements.
The Heirophant, actually has the "fly" rule to simulate it walking over terrain, so it can be surprisingly maneuverable.
The "wobbly model" rule suggestion, doesn't specifically mention your issue, but I think it would imply that you can just consider it to be in combat range.
"Hints and Tips –
Wobbly Models
Sometimes you may find that a particular terrain feature makes it hard for you to place a model exactly where you want. If you delicately balance a model in place, it is very likely to fall as soon as someone nudges the table, leaving your painted model damaged or even broken. In cases like this, provided it is still physically possible to place the model in the desired location, you may find it helps to leave a model in a safer position, so long as both players agree and know its ‘actual’ location. If, later on, an enemy model is shooting the model, you will have to hold it back in place so they can check visibility."
|
|
|
|
Post by raceygaming on Dec 12, 2022 11:17:43 GMT -5
Also while not an official rule the ITC tournment placing guide means that there should be a full 4" between "Breach-able terrain", aka Walls or ruins which is enough for for knights to fit. With things like forest and craters being 2" away from walls/ruins, so even if it slows the model it can still pass through.
If you find that you are playing on tables where terrains is more dense than that constantly (unless playing a scenario) maybe look at your terrain placement.
|
|
|
|
Post by thatguythere on Dec 12, 2022 12:30:28 GMT -5
The Heirophant, actually has the "fly" rule to simulate it walking over terrain, so it can be surprisingly maneuverable. The "wobbly model" rule suggestion, doesn't specifically mention your issue, but I think it would imply that you can just consider it to be in combat range. This rule, combined with "fly", is why I presumed it could stop "on top of" walls. I mean, if the "wall" goes up to a elevated platform, a Space Marine can stop "on" it, but the Heirophant can't, which seems ... ... weird. |
|
|
|
Post by thatguythere on Dec 12, 2022 12:45:45 GMT -5
The Harridan is on a flyer base, so you use that for all measurements. ... but it's SO tiny! We'd been measuring her from the "hull". Her ability to fight two very distant foes, creating a giant pocket of melee, was pretty handy. I'm a bit sorry to see it go. |
|
