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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Mar 9, 2023 13:26:24 GMT -5
Really interesting discussion: www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/09/warhammer-40000-metawatch-reading-the-omens-of-the-arks-of-omen/I like that they're saying there's complex things that are skewing the results. ie: GSC lists that are winning have like 170 neophytes just flooding the board, where mixed lists aren't doing well. Dark Angels are the biggest boogeyman right now, and they seem to know why they're doing so well. Nids are third last.... my how the mighty have fallen! (I've almost got mine all painted so certainly tracks with what usually happens with my armies lol) |
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Mar 9, 2023 13:50:24 GMT -5
Damn Tsons fell hard too, that's like a 20% swing down from before the daemon nerfs/ark of omen
Maybe other stuff hit them too I haven't actually been playing that close attention lol
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Post by raceygaming on Mar 9, 2023 13:50:34 GMT -5
I'm going to be very surprised if the Codex Warfare Devastator doctrine does not get the nerf hammer. It is currently propping both Iron Hand and Dark Angles up with an auto 14-15 pts in a secondary. If they go to 1pt per unit then you will see armies that can fight in multiple ways not getting punished for staying in Dev.
Will be interesting to see what small tweeks that will help stop demons and custodes from filling the power vacuum of Dark angles and weirdly GSC.
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Post by raceygaming on Mar 9, 2023 13:54:08 GMT -5
Damn Tsons fell hard too, that's like a 20% swing down from before the daemon nerfs/ark of omen Maybe other stuff hit them too I haven't actually been playing that close attention lol I think losing the flamer allies being crazy powerful and they had some of their secondaries nerfed pretty hard into AoO. Then you also have the meta shift of no Armour of contempt stacking with all is dust for 2+ everywhere, AND people reacting to the marines point drop by bring a ton of -2/-3 ap Damage 2 or damage 3 weapons (MEQ or GravisEQ), which is prefect for killing T.Sons. |
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Mar 9, 2023 15:29:01 GMT -5
You also have the competitive scene, which is chock full of bandwagon jumpers. Soon as one busted build gets popular the win rates skyrocket as these "pro-players" jump to the new "best thing" and the remaining players are left holding the bag of whatever nerfs the competitive scene just handed them, then moved on.
GSC I think is pretty clear. Yes, having 150+ models deep strike onto the board, even if they're guardsmen, is too much for most armies to deal with, especially if you play the passive game (broodswarm, banners, RND etc.) where you don't have to interact with your opponent, or really even kill anything. 20 neophytes do an action and sit on an objective. Oh you killed them with bolters? well here's 20 more. rinse and repeat til the opponent runs out of time and the GSC player has a huge primary/secondary advantage. It's a very uninteractive playstyle though. My hope is that specific tactic gets nerfed (no free wargear for neophytes is a pretty good start - as they were only occasionally seen before that change, and not in high numbers). My worry is that they just Votann/Nids the book and give sweeping point increases which kicks the casual player and the competitive players just shrug and move onto the next one.
Nids sitting at 45% is totally fine with me. Good. Less chance they'll take down GT's and get in the crosshairs again. Maybe they'll fix the overcorrection on warriors then?
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Post by mrmanstory on Mar 9, 2023 15:41:26 GMT -5
The worse tyranids get the more likely they are to bring back the coolest mechanic the book had of being able to pick your adaptive biology when you know what your playing. I like how many armies are chilling in the "good zone" that they've determined.
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Post by Typhus on Mar 9, 2023 15:49:51 GMT -5
Losing the ability to Adapt based on their opponent was the worst nerf of all, because it made Tyranids less cool and flavourful.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Mar 9, 2023 16:28:05 GMT -5
Losing the ability to Adapt based on their opponent was the worst nerf of all, because it made Tyranids less cool and flavourful. And it's not like THAT was why they were dominating! I mean now, people just pick the best one... other than the cool option of adapting to their opponent. But other than the really dumb warriors nerf (I mean why GW thinks they should be 12 points more than terminators I have ZERO idea!) and a couple things here and there (like adaptive) I'm still pretty happy with the nids current state. They're more fun when they're just not steamrolling everyone with leviathan trans-human everything. |
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Post by MagnusTheThicc on Mar 9, 2023 17:17:02 GMT -5
neophytes do an action and sit on an objective. Oh you killed them with bolters? well here's 20 more. The genestealers are easily killed, but they'll be back. And in greater numbers. |
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Post by drew on Mar 9, 2023 23:26:12 GMT -5
Really interesting discussion: www.warhammer-community.com/2023/03/09/warhammer-40000-metawatch-reading-the-omens-of-the-arks-of-omen/I like that they're saying there's complex things that are skewing the results. ie: GSC lists that are winning have like 170 neophytes just flooding the board, where mixed lists aren't doing well. Dark Angels are the biggest boogeyman right now, and they seem to know why they're doing so well. Nids are third last.... my how the mighty have fallen! (I've almost got mine all painted so certainly tracks with what usually happens with my armies lol) On one hand... I like seeing Dark Angels doing well... on the other... I'm not looking forward to seeing the inevitable nerf hammer coming for them. Im hoping its primarily just a tweak or nerf to codex warfare... but I wouldn't be surprised to see the terminators get some sort've nerf, and as a primarily Deathwing player, while I'd understand, it's not something I'd be happy about |
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Mar 10, 2023 1:05:24 GMT -5
I mean as a DA player, it's outlandish that we not only get the best terminators, we also get the *cheapest* terminators (in that on top of being the best you also get to staple on more equipment than anyone else at no extra cost).
If they're not going to charge for equipment they probably have to acknowledge that a bunch of our units are dramatically superior to what you get if you take them in vanilla by increasing the unit price. I don't see they have a lot of alternatives atm.
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Post by LizardTau on Mar 10, 2023 6:22:53 GMT -5
Codex warfare is a hard one to balance. As 2 vp for devestator is too much but if it was one then it would be useless unless the other army had tonnes of easy to kill units.
But it is (almost) an auto take for any marine army that stays in the devestator doctrine. I've had a couple games where I maxed it out by the end of turn 2 or 3.
Other then vs knights or other elite armies.
Also makes it difficult to balance when one marine offshoot is doing so well when the others are at a less then 50% win rate.
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