Great Crusade Feedback Thread

[Jack Shrapnel]

Hey everyone, 

The big experiment was over and we'd like to hear your thoughts so we can make next year even better!

So let us know about your experience, especially concerning:

1. What did you like best?
2. What could use some tweaking?
3. Was there a favourite mission you played that you'd like to play again?
4. Was there a mission that felt like it needed reworking / you didn't enjoy?
5. Was having the regular game length for games okay even at 1500 points? (I know it made the end a bit rushed)
6. Any other suggestions you can think of?

[LizardTau]

1. It was fun, all the crazy missions and the casual fun attitude to it was great loved it.

2. Maybe smaller games like 1000 to give a little more time for reading strange missions before starting. that said i did finish two of my three games but as you said it did feel a little rushed at times.

3. Grot mart and The objective bomb dropping one (deadly intelligence maybe the one i played with you shannon) where my favourite. gort mart was just funny even tho i didnt do good in the mission.

4. I didn't play any i didn't enjoy this time but 3 our of 18 isn't many so im sure there are some people didn't like.

5. as i said maybe a little smaller just for people to read the missions since its a fun tournament. that said this might be thrown out the window is a month or so with 10th which might be so much simpler.

6. ummm more tournaments? lol

[question]

I wasn't there this year but in my experience if you are not playing grot mart for fun, you're playing it wrong.

[fumj79]

Thanks to Chris and Shannon for your efforts putting on another event. My main piece of feedback would be regarding the advertising of the event rather than the missions themselves. The last Great Crusade event I played was 1500 pts with the bossfight and the missions, if I recall correctly, were Warzone Nachtmund. (Whichever the current tournament book was at the time) So I was gearing up for the event thinking we'd be doing Arks of Omen missions. I personally prefer the more competitive tournament experience. Even if I don't do well there is a structure I can work within to improve my play yada yada. I would have just liked to see some indication of the format in the signup. (Correct me if I'm wrong I'm pretty sure there was none). I think may have taken a pass on the silly custom missions or at least would have gone in with the mindset of "Oh whatever, I'll just slap something together I don't normally play." I know some people, myself included, really like to get alot of practice games in and possibly build / paint new things for events and may have budgeted my time differently.

Having said that I know Chris and Shannon did put alot of time into organizing the event and I know other people enjoyed the casual fun format so here's my 2 cents on the missions I played:

Apologies I don't remember all the names.

Round 1 - Hold 2, 3 More mission with your third secondary mission being a dice roll for objectives on the table gaining you 4 points. This was probly my best experience. The terrain on the table was decent and though I didn't really like the RNG secondary the funny thing was I'm pretty sure I scored more on it than had I gone with my usual raise banners.

Round 2 - This mission was the one with 4 objectives in no-mans land that you had to hold with your characters that you assigned "leadership points" to and the only secondary was killing you opponents assigned "leaders". The mission twist here was fine however roughly 24"x60" of bare no man's land should never happen in the current state of 40K. I don't think that's fun for anyone.

Round 3 - Hammer and Ambull - Lucas and I kinda had fun on this one. I think I was more just salty because I was getting peppered by the volume of shooting in his Salamanders army. Not enough LOS blocking terrain on this table. Having said that Sisters just don't do well into that much shooting in general that's a GW balance issue. The "ambull" popping out everywhere was a funny twist though Lucas and I kinda figured out a way to "game" the mission by just placing them in an empty part of table more than 12" inches away from our troops and just shooting them for the 3 points.

Thanks again folks for putting on the tournament and please note that all my feedback is meant to be constructive criticism.

[mrmanstory]

1. I loved the format of a way more casual tournament. I really enjoyed different tables having different missions. Maybe I got lucky but the 3 tables I played on were the space one where explosions are bigger and deadlier. The knight table (thanks Shannon lol) and the unstable reactor table but I thought those were all pretty fun missions.

2. Maybe a bit more playtesting on some of the missions. I know you guys put a lot of work into coming up with and testing but maybe next time do a post asking if people want to test some of the ideas? I know I wouldn’t have minded giving a hand.

3. The knight table for the love of all that is holy the knight table should be at every event! Other than that I think the explosions mission was fun even if everything that exploded seemed to be in the middle of my army (that could be more of a player skill issue than anything lol )

4. I didn’t hear much about many of the missions I didn’t play but the mission that was running characters into the mid board seemed to be a bit of a miss. I think it’s an awesome idea and would’ve loved to play that mission to have a better idea of how it played.

5. I think it was perfectly fine length. Maybe I’m the wrong person to speak on this since I got tabled 3 games straight though lol

6. No real suggestions other than what I’ve said in other answers just want to state that I really enjoy the more thematic tournaments and hope we do more along these lines. Thanks Shannon and chris for running everything! Excited to hear what the next tournament will be!

[fumj79]

Additional.

Just thought of an idea 💡 I know the topic of terrain has become a bit of a contentious issue before. I think mostly because the tournament organization is volunteer and can feel thankless if people just complain. So how bout this, I’ll throw my hat in the ring so to speak. Next tournament I’ll volunteer to help set up the tables in addition (if the community is ok with it) I’ll go around and either write some little labels or maybe a terrain legend for each table. That way we can say, ok on this table where we just don’t have enough 5” tall ruins we can say that these X number of old school fantasy village pieces will count as ruins for example. I understand there is kind of the assumption that players can just sort this out for themselves. But inevitably the person with the shooting army using going to say “no no no too much LOS blocking” and the person with the melee army is going to say the opposite. This way there is just an impartial person saying look we’re trying to keep it balanced putting x number of ruins x number of forests.

Who knows maybe it won’t be as necessary in 10th Ed. But I doubt it. I know GW has said they’re going to tone down the killyness but let’s be honest fair balanced and unexciting army rules don’t sell models GW has been playing that game long before I joined the hobby I’m sure.

[Jack Shrapnel]

All throughout the advertising for this, and every time I was at Nexus, I talked about custom missions being the focus on this one. It's a narrative event.  Locally we have exactly TWO competitive events for 40k. That would be teams and clubs. Other's are narrative and friendly, and Crusade has always been (along with Santa) one of our most popular narrative events.

As for some of the missions unfortunately we found out like four days before the event to prepare for 34, not the 24 that were signed up on the website, so we scrambled as best we could to make sure we had tables. Insert my "why does the website not show signup numbers accurately" statement here again.

RE: terrain. After clubs feedback I was not wanting to go over this terrain thing again but I'll clarify for this specific tournament. This was a narrative event, where the terrain is on the table to simulate a specific theme, not to be a WTC let's throw L shaped ruins on every board.

I'm not looking for anyone to come over and "correct" my tables that I set up for a tournament, thank you.

I appreciate the feedback, but this thread will not be a terrain conversation like the last one, because my patience on that issue is quite exhausted.

[kaelon]

Son of a bee sting this is what you meant by "Chris and I have something in the works" when I made a comment on the club champs. I wish I could have been there for this one the custom missions were always my favorite. Did you have a Titan game?

[fumj79]

Apr 23, 2023 15:40:53 GMT -5 Jack Shrapnel said:

All throughout the advertising for this, and every time I was at Nexus, I talked about custom missions being the focus on this one. It's a narrative event.  Locally we have exactly TWO competitive events for 40k. That would be teams and clubs. Other's are narrative and friendly, and Crusade has always been (along with Santa) one of our most popular narrative events.

As for some of the missions unfortunately we found out like four days before the event to prepare for 34, not the 24 that were signed up on the website, so we scrambled as best we could to make sure we had tables. Insert my "why does the website not show signup numbers accurately" statement here again.

RE: terrain. After clubs feedback I was not wanting to go over this terrain thing again but I'll clarify for this specific tournament. This was a narrative event, where the terrain is on the table to simulate a specific theme, not to be a WTC let's throw L shaped ruins on every board.

I'm not looking for anyone to come over and "correct" my tables that I set up for a tournament, thank you.

I appreciate the feedback, but this thread will not be a terrain conversation like the last one, because my patience on that issue is quite exhausted.

Hey Shannon, I wasn’t looking to start an argument. I understand you put a lot of effort into the tournament. Also just because I said that style of tournament is not necessarily my thing doesn’t mean I think it’s BAD. Like if it’s a fun custom mission event just say that, that’s all. “Narrative” event means different things to different people. I talked to a few people at the tournament who weren’t expecting the custom missions either. On the sign-up there is lots of mention about what warlords were allowed and that were trying to keep it friendly and that’s what I’ve come to expect kinda casual competitive. Honesty when you and Chris said that you had worked on putting the Missions together for a month. I thought wow that’s really cool, but that was the first time I had heard that. Also in the grand scheme of things not that big of a deal. Just a suggestion.

So I won’t get into the terrain thing aside from saying that you asked for feedback so I was just offering suggestions and volunteering my time to help out. I have been enjoying the local war gaming community since I got into it and admire the effort you put into promoting and growing the community. So to clarify I’m not trying to “correct” your table set-up or hijack your tournament. You asked for feedback and that’s where I personally felt I would enjoy the games more.

[fumj79]

Apr 23, 2023 16:56:10 GMT -5 kaelon said:

Son of a bee sting this is what you meant by "Chris and I have something in the works" when I made a comment on the club champs. I wish I could have been there for this one the custom missions were always my favorite. Did you have a Titan game?

Yes there was you would have loved it. A nice pink Knight Desecrator.

[ItsBird]

1. What did you like best?
Custom missions! Made some very memorable moments.
2. What could use some tweaking?
I think time was against yall when you were trying to prepare all the missions.i felt like one of the missions I personally played was a miss. I loved the other two games. It happens. I'm definitely happy to playtest narrative missions!
3. Was there a favourite mission you played that you'd like to play again?
My favourite was definitely Daemonworld. Possession is hilarious.
4. Was there a mission that felt like it needed reworking / you didn't enjoy?
I'd like to try the leadership mission in 10th edition.
5. Was having the regular game length for games okay even at 1500 points? (I know it made the end a bit rushed)
I didn't feel rushed personally. I found that I went pretty close to time on average but I felt like the pace was good.
6. Any other suggestions you can think of?
More narrative events! I get bored of 6 variations of hold 1 hold 2

Ty Shannon and Chris for the tournament I had a really great time!

[Typhus]

Apr 23, 2023 15:40:53 GMT -5 Jack Shrapnel said:

All throughout the advertising for this, and every time I was at Nexus, I talked about custom missions being the focus on this one.

I didn't see anything about that in the original forum post or the Nexus signup page - I think everyone I spoke to was surprised about the custom missions, too.

Not that I have a problem with them - I quite liked them, and found the tournament to be a fun change of pace. I do think it could have been communicated better, though.

[cmcd]

Yeah.. Table 18. Ill take the hit for that one. Sorry to the 4 who played on that table. It wasnt pointed out until after game 3. That was pure Setting up tables as people were coming in. It was the last table set up and there weren't many large pieces of terrain left other than those 5 buildings. I figured deployment zone was the way to go. Definitely should have been more pieces of terrain at the center of the table.

Next time Ill make sure there is a semi- defensible No Mans land.

That was the Octarius Warzone. specifically Octaira the System Capital - Its a Ork Death World, that got invaded by Hive Fleet Leviathan. There should have been more "foliage" on that table. It just came down to it being the last table to be set up.

"A Death World is a planet which is too dangerous to support widespread Human settlement due to dangerous environmental conditions or the sheer ferocity of the fauna and flora that make up the planet's biospheres.

The types of Death Worlds are varied, ranging from planets that are covered by world-wide jungles that harbour vicious carnivorous plants and animals to barren rocks capes strewn with volcanoes and wracked by ion storms. In at least one case, the planet itself is alive.

These worlds are near-impossible to colonize by Mankind due to their environmental conditions or the nature of their biospheres.

Nonetheless, many of these worlds have large Human settlements, which are notable for the strength and self-reliance of their people. "

So. It kind of fit with it. For next time, I have make a note that there should be more carnivorous plants on the table.

[cmcd]

Apr 23, 2023 15:11:37 GMT -5 fumj79 said:

Additional.

Just thought of an idea 💡 I know the topic of terrain has become a bit of a contentious issue before. I think mostly because the tournament organization is volunteer and can feel thankless if people just complain. So how bout this, I’ll throw my hat in the ring so to speak. Next tournament I’ll volunteer to help set up the tables in addition (if the community is ok with it) I’ll go around and either write some little labels or maybe a terrain legend for each table. That way we can say, ok on this table where we just don’t have enough 5” tall ruins we can say that these X number of old school fantasy village pieces will count as ruins for example. I understand there is kind of the assumption that players can just sort this out for themselves. But inevitably the person with the shooting army using going to say “no no no too much LOS blocking” and the person with the melee army is going to say the opposite. This way there is just an impartial person saying look we’re trying to keep it balanced putting x number of ruins x number of forests.

I was hoping to have a Terrain sheet for each table.  But the problem comes up when your setting the table up the day of or the night before, and  not sure what terrain is available to go with the mission.  So if you have a old school fantasy piece on the table, it wasn't planned, it was due to availability*.  and cant "really" plan ahead of time what terrain  with be on a given table.  

I appreciate this feedback.  It reminds me that i need a sheet.   I'll likely make a sheet for each warzone and base it to the height of the terrain, so there isnt any confusion.  Yes i know #New40k (first time writing that.  never happening again). Yes I know 10th will have new rules for terrain, but we will make sure that it is clear to everyone what the terrain is.    And when in doubt or unable to come to a consensus between the players, come find a T.O. and we will tell you what the terrain traits are.

*super thankful of Nexus to have all that terrain. 

[cmcd]

Apr 23, 2023 16:56:10 GMT -5 kaelon said:

Son of a bee sting this is what you meant by "Chris and I have something in the works" when I made a comment on the club champs. I wish I could have been there for this one the custom missions were always my favorite. Did you have a Titan game?

No Titan....   

Maybe next time we'll do Warzone Pandorax and throw in a Khorne Tower of SKulls, and have that thing grind up and down the table.  

We did have Seize the forge, which had a Questor Traitoris. But no Titans.

You have given me Idea's Kaelon.