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Post by Typhus on Jun 27, 2023 20:53:14 GMT -5
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Post by raceygaming on Jun 27, 2023 20:56:54 GMT -5
Ya towering and the GW terrain style looks to be a rough time. Turns out big windows are good friends to towering with shooting.
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Post by thatguythere on Jun 28, 2023 7:32:15 GMT -5
I don't subscribe to they, "they don't playtest" meme, but Towering makes me extremely curious what their playtest conditions are.
Is there a terrain setup they commonly use that required Towering? Do they use setups that negate or weaken it? Is it a tactical insight they didn't foresee?
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Post by voodoo on Jun 28, 2023 7:34:18 GMT -5
So now everyone is understanding how knight players felt in 9th... I don't see a problem here...
Joking aside, this is the problem with everyone in 9th crying for corner ruins with windows. The terrain we have in our local club isn't all just building corners; the diversity of terrain that people openly mocked and derided would now "save" them from the problems that larger events are having.
The answer is simple, don't put an entire table together of "open window" ruined buildings. Problem solved. Have some on both sides, to make it a fair representation and to not unduly hamper any army out there; just... keep it balanced and diverse in the terrain layouts.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jun 28, 2023 7:56:18 GMT -5
"ruin windows do not count for LOS"
- problem solved?
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Post by raceygaming on Jun 28, 2023 7:59:14 GMT -5
That is pretty much what ITC did to "fix" on 9th. Or WTC who put 4-6 9x9x5" windowless L on each map that can hide anything.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jun 28, 2023 8:01:30 GMT -5
I mean, I'm not really seeing a huge issue if it works both ways - if you can see it you can shoot it. That's kind of how 40k worked for 8 editions of the game til obscuring came in isn't it?
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Post by lightcavalier on Jun 28, 2023 8:50:17 GMT -5
I mean, I'm not really seeing a huge issue if it works both ways - if you can see it you can shoot it. That's kind of how 40k worked for 8 editions of the game til obscuring came in isn't it? The big issue is that unless you have significantly tall opaque walls, the Towering army can just stand in its deployment zone and kill you regardless of terrain It makes the game planet bowling ball where towering units are involved Now Nexus has some great giant true LOS blocking pieces, which basically negate the issue....which puts you ahead of alot of other places as to 8 editions From 3rd thru at least 6th the game was literally true LOS only, but also had weird caveats like needing to see more than X% of a model to be able to shoot it, and not counting things like wings/antenas/etc as targettable parts of the models.....and the tallest model used in a typical game wasnt much bigger than the old Daemon Prince or a large dreadnaught |
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Post by raceygaming on Jun 28, 2023 8:53:32 GMT -5
I mean, I'm not really seeing a huge issue if it works both ways - if you can see it you can shoot it. That's kind of how 40k worked for 8 editions of the game til obscuring came in isn't it? I think the problem is most towering models got a glow up in terms of damage output and toughness. 10th knights make 9th knight look pretty weak. |
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Post by Hi I'm Derek on Jun 28, 2023 10:00:20 GMT -5
It fills me with immense sadness that the solution to another edition of 40k's terrain problems seem to be best solved with yet more infinitely high L shaped ruins with no windows.
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Post by voodoo on Jun 28, 2023 10:20:38 GMT -5
What terrain problem? Just use true LOS. If you can see you can shoot, if not, then you can't. Nothing infinitely tall needs to be done. If you can see the knight, then shoot it, if it can see you then you'll get shot. It's really a simple cause/effect.
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Post by ohgodsnakes on Jun 28, 2023 10:24:45 GMT -5
If you want to go back to knights being terrible, come play heresy! They are straight dog water haha.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jun 28, 2023 10:31:15 GMT -5
Ignoring "obscuring" (new version) and going to true LOS for towering models isn't the problem in my mind. Nor is "hide behind these L ruins on every table" the solution.
If there's a problem with an army or a unit, then fix the underlying problem. We're early days but the latest 10th tourney results has Knights and Eldar firmly at the top - BUT there are a variety of other armies filling out the top 10... I don't think it's as dire as it's being made out to be, like at all.
And the "problem" is only a problem for these ultra competitive events where you're meeting these crazy netlists that lean hard into a broken combo. Remember locally we just have to keep playing our fun lists, and wait for the whole greater GT mess to be sorted out.
It kinda seems like index 10th was designed for the REST of the players, not the competitive GT players... and the results kind of reflect that. (and VERY different gaming experiences between casual and competitive players)
Will it all be changed through FAQ's, Erratas and the release of Codices? yep. Every edition does it. (last couple editions are just WAY quicker at it).
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Post by Typhus on Jun 28, 2023 12:30:30 GMT -5
If you want to go back to knights being terrible, come play heresy! They are straight dog water haha. No Eldar, too. Truly the perfect system. |
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Post by kaelon on Jun 28, 2023 13:57:40 GMT -5
True los kind of makes sense when it comes to Knights. They are shooting at you with bullets the size of most infantry if not bigger. I don't know about you but I don't think a broken building is going to stop that.
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