Club Champs 2024 feedback thread

[Jack Shrapnel]

Well another tourney is in the books as always good to hear from the community so that I can continue to give you the experience you want. 

So in saying that:

1. What do you think went well this year?
2. Was there something that particularly made your individual experience better?
3. What did you think about having tabletop live there?
4. Did a fuller incorporation of BCP improve your experience?
5. Did you like the ability to see lists on BCP before the tournament?
6. How did you find signup this year? easier or more confusing? (ie: should it go back to being handled solely by Nexus, not BCP)
7. Do you have any suggestions for how to handle last minute drop outs? (last minute means we cannot get someone off the wait list)
8. Is there anything we can do to improve the next one?

[mrmanstory]

1. I really liked that we used BCP this year. I found it makes things run very smooth in comparison to having you need to let everyone know their matchups at the start. I will also always be happy with the best table competition as it adds some cool variety to the terrain (titan legs lol)

2. My answer for this would also be about BCP so see answer 1.

3. Having tabletop live there was super cool! Being able to go home and watch some of the other games is a cool experience. Even more so when you know the people playing.

4. See answer 1 again.

5. I liked seeing the lists on BCP before as it lets me theory craft possible game plans while already knowing my own list. I assume next year will have a stricter list submission date which would be good.

6. I thought sign up’s on BCP worked really well but I do know there was a couple issues. I would still prefer if it was this way all the time going forward.

7. This is a hard one. I think having Dave there was a cool way around it but other than that I’m not too sure how to handle this.

8. I think this years clubs was the best one in the 3 years I’ve attended so I think y’all are already doing a fantastic job organizing! No complaints here!

[evad]

Hello!

Really loved the Table Top Live aspect; BCP was great and a very useful tool for sign up, lists and game day.

I enjoyed being a ringer and i am happy to do so again if need be. There may be others willing to do this so I have no problem if someone else is keen to jump into the role. The only time being a ringer may be an issue for me is if I decide to sign up as a participant next year 🙂-otherwise I am happy to help out.

I thought the tournament went extremely well.

Dave

[raceygaming]

1. What do you think went well this year?

This year felt it it ran the most mechanically smooth. There seemed to be no issues with match making, round timing or table assignment. There felt like there was a decent amount of space at the each table and with the changes to the painting competition and display boards definately no over crowding or overflow. Even with somebad weather 95% of the games seem to go off with no hitch.

2. Was there something that particularly made your individual experience better?

I might have been a fortunate one, but this year I played all 5 games on different tables and had no repeat match ups for faction which was realy cool, Again this was more luck of the draw but really nice.

I think overall with the "best table" in the mix this year tables felt like the terrain was the best it has been for clubs. I really hope next year we get the old 5 tables plus some new ones to really help get the terrain into the higher end of playability.


3. What did you think about having tabletop live there?

I really like have them there, I think that having an experience like that helps with the tournament environment. I was hoping to get the orks to the table but it was not to be, If we could get them back for any other tournaments, epseically some of or more fluffy ones it would be cool. Having nexus show off the more narrative Crusade or secret santa would be great.

4. Did a fuller incorporation of BCP improve your experience?

I think overall this is a yes. BCP was really useful from a player side. Excellent to have the match ups and table number to make games transition smoothly. I think most of my games had 2:20 play time since we could get a set up going a little before the bell. Also being able to submit a digital and have a paper back up was great.

5. Did you like the ability to see lists on BCP before the tournament?

I think this was great. I'll admit I foud myself more busy then I had hoped so didn't get to deep dive the lists like I wanted but it definately helped to avoid any feeling of "gotcha" since I had some time to look up things before hand. I do think that this year was a good test of let players police themselves and 90% of people had a list up at least 1 week before the tournament. Might be good next year to set a hard date, I know some people need a deadline.

6. How did you find signup this year? easier or more confusing? (ie: should it go back to being handled solely by Nexus, not BCP)

I think as we use the BCP app more the better and easier it will be. I know there was some issue with poeple being on accounts not linked to the right email so I can't speak to the staff who had to deal with it but I found it great. I also liked that while the digital sign up was there paying in person to confirm your spot is a good way to do it.


7. Do you have any suggestions for how to handle last minute drop outs? (last minute means we cannot get someone off the wait list)

So this was something that was pretty frustrating to see. I know life can shift and change very quickly, however I think not just for Clubs but any Nexus run tournament there needs to be a 7 day cut off or a pentality. I think a natural one would be no refund to a player, as Nexus has to assemble its prize pool and that money has been account for. I would also not be above a rolling sign up pentaly, if you drop out on the morning of, the next tournament you can't sign up for until the morning of , show up and wait and hope it isn't full, better luck next time. I know clubs had 3-5 people on a wait list and with even 2 days notice I think we could have been a full 32.

I really did like having dave as a rolling ringer. His ability to jump in to fill a gap and then back out was very kind, and helped make this go smooth.

8. Is there anything we can do to improve the next one?

So this might be the more unpopular of my responses and I don't want any one to feel targetted but there are some issues that feel like they should be addressed:

1. Dice - This is game that revolves around rolling a d6. Your dice need to be easy to read by both players. Pips or alphanumeric characters , preferably with high contrast colours. NO TOURNAMENT of any kinda should have dice that have non-pip symbols on 2 sides (usually the 1 and 6) which are not limited to symbols, roman numerals , tally marks etc. I stand by this statment for any dice game. Use your cool dice as wound counters, turn trackers, point scoring or whatever but not for playing the games.

2. Tanking - This is the first year where I have seen this deliberately at Clubs. People pay money to come to a tournament and play a game. If you are not sincerely trying to win each game you play, then a CHAMPIONSHIP tournament is not the place for that play style. Nexus runs fun tournaments, narrative tournaments, and even has wooden spoon (last place) prizing in some, then go nuts. This tournament had a wait list of people that I think wanted to try for best general and they didn't get a spot.

3. Clear scoring guidelines - Again this is the first year we are trying something different but I think that it would really help some people to know how or what is being scored. This is best general was amazing , you knew going 5-0 won you that award and I think that helped. I found that sportsmanship, painting and Best overall was nebulus, you write something down ranked 1-3 and that turns into points. You win the game but what does your score mean or even more importantly if you lose and can't win best general, what about best over all?
I'd love to see the player pack updated to reflect the soft scoring and SoS tie breaking factor.
Example

Best general = 5-0

Best painting - 1st = 5 pts, 2nd =3 pts, 3rd = 1 pt to a max of 25 over 5 game(use the same as sportmanship)s, Plus 25 points for judges picks 5 judges 1st= 5 pts, 2nd =3 pts, 3rd =1 pt , perfect score 50

Best Sportsmanship - Best sportsmenship we well covered on T.O pack - 11/7/3 for 1st/2nd/3rd

Best Overall = weight points + sportsmanship + painting

weight points = total points scored x extended SoS / 10 - idea being the tougher your SoS the more each point you scored is worth since it was possible vs a stronger player.

ex Kevin 86+61+69+86+56 X 2.68 /10 = 95.9
Rick 81+75+75+61+62 X 3.12 /10 = 110.4

I am not by any means saying that this is how it should be scored but I think a clear outline would be great for next year. Especially knowing this year the 1st and 2nd was 1 point off. I know I was confused at how best overall and painting was calculated. Again overall this years best painting was much better then scoring everyone like the old days.

I am sorry for the wall of text, I look forward to the next tournament and CLUBS 2025!!!

[Jack Shrapnel]

Best painting was ONLY the judging at the end. The small score sheets were the soft scores for overall and sportsmanship, that's it.

We had to pivot at the end because frankly the scoring sheets we had you all fill out were an absolute mess. Not everyone handed in sheets. Some sheets were just found randomly. Others were handed in day two when it was day one sheet. Although we had multiple andrews and matts, many people didn't put the last initial/name or their own name, so we had nexus staff during the last game spending literally an hour cross checking matchups to try and figure it out.

Tried to sort it all behind the scenes so it would not affect the standings and was reflective of what people were scoring for sports and painting and how the players were doing by the end of game five. Best overall literally could have been one of four people as we were coming to the end, it was that close. The little sheets were pretty crucial to deciding this.

Luckily BCP already factors in strength of schedule (which is why Jordan for example was #4 and Lukas #5 even though Lukas scored more battle points). So that is already baked in at the outset for these calculations. 

[cmcd]

I had to pull out of the tournament a week a head due to health issues.

However. It was really cool being able to watch the tournament from my house. The stream helped the loss of not being there.

And it was really fun to watch. I hope they come back.

Thats my two cents.

[3modlelist]

I thought it was an amazing time. To me it ran super smooth for games and match ups. Running in the app made it run smooth. Unfortunately due to most people not being able to get internet access made it a bit slow....

I had a great time going 0-5. It was somewhat difficult avoiding points but made for some funny interaction.

[raceygaming]

Feb 19, 2024 22:56:24 GMT -5 Jack Shrapnel said:

Best painting was ONLY the judging at the end. The small score sheets were the soft scores for overall and sportsmanship, that's it.

We had to pivot at the end because frankly the scoring sheets we had you all fill out were an absolute mess. Not everyone handed in sheets. Some sheets were just found randomly. Others were handed in day two when it was day one sheet. Although we had multiple andrews and matts, many people didn't put the last initial/name or their own name, so we had nexus staff during the last game spending literally an hour cross checking matchups to try and figure it out.

Tried to sort it all behind the scenes so it would not affect the standings and was reflective of what people were scoring for sports and painting and how the players were doing by the end of game five. Best overall literally could have been one of four people as we were coming to the end, it was that close. The little sheets were pretty crucial to deciding this.

Luckily BCP already factors in strength of schedule (which is why Jordan for example was #4 and Lukas #5 even though Lukas scored more battle points). So that is already baked in at the outset for these calculations. 

See I knew there was method to your madness.I will think about a system that we could use to implement to stream line the paint/sports sheets. Sorry to hear that there was some frustration caused by players.

I did not realize that the best painted at the end only impacted the best painted score, I assumed if you wanted to go for best overall it was a necessary things so I put my orks in. I didn't think they would win just thought I needed to. I guess that kinda clear messaging in the player pack might be useful.

[Jack Shrapnel]

I've been running tournaments for 15 years here... anytime players have to fill out a sheet it gets messed up. Score sheets, sports sheets, painting sheets, painting self scores... tried them all.

Maybe I'll just force people to climb on the back of someone to indicate their favourite. I mean at this point it can't work any worse than what I've tried.

throughout the treads on this tourney and in the player pack it is indicated that best painted is a completely separate thing, and display boards were not required unless you were entering that contest. Having a best painted contest that only a few people could enter being a requirement for best overall would not be fair - otherwise only like a half dozen people would have been qualified for best overall!

So it's separate... and always will be so, because it worked SO much better this year.

[Typhus]

Feb 20, 2024 11:16:53 GMT -5 Jack Shrapnel said:

I've been running tournaments for 15 years here... anytime players have to fill out a sheet it gets messed up. Score sheets, sports sheets, painting sheets, painting self scores... tried them all.

Time to invest in a whip.

[cmcd]

Were there any pictures for best painted and best table? Maybe moving forward we can look at making a collage post tournaments to increase awareness.

Don’t know if we need the awareness but might be cool. 🆒.

[macstern]

Feb 19, 2024 22:14:46 GMT -5 raceygaming said:

2. Tanking - This is the first year where I have seen this deliberately at Clubs. People pay money to come to a tournament and play a game. If you are not sincerely trying to win each game you play, then a CHAMPIONSHIP tournament is not the place for that play style. Nexus runs fun tournaments, narrative tournaments, and even has wooden spoon (last place) prizing in some, then go nuts. This tournament had a wait list of people that I think wanted to try for best general and they didn't get a spot.

While I may agree your sentiment, maybe this would have been better dealt with by tournament organizers, rather then someone declaring edicts without authority. If the organizers want to stress competitive play all the more power to them. Hope you did well and had fun.

[3modlelist]

As the only open player saying what I was doing... (tanking) I can only assume this is about me. Guess what... to bad. I play how I want cuz I paid just like u.

[Jack Shrapnel]

There was nothing that anyone was doing that required my intervention this weekend. If Nick wanted to play his own way, then he can play his own way, even if it meant he wasn't winning any best general/overall prizes for doing so. Only person that impacted was himself.

Seems to be he and Drew had an awesome final game as they were both laughing and talking about it. So sounds like at least in that game aftermath I witnessed, they both had a blast.

Of greater concern to me is people dropping last second which actually prevent people on the waiting list a chance to play. Nick certainly did not take any spot away from someone on a wait list who "really wanted to win best general".  90% of the players at any event do not win the top awards. I'm most concerned that those people have fun and come back, or we do not have a club or the ability to have tournaments.  If all that matters is top placing then we'd be like MTG and have people drop each round when they lose a game, and I don't think anyone wants that. 

I think our community can accommodate multiple ways to have fun.

[mrmanstory]

Yeah I agree with Shannon on this one. Those 2 sounded like they had a blast round 5 and even gave Shannon and I a chuckle during our game. People interact with the hobby in different ways and we shouldn’t be making someone seem like they are interacting with the hobby “wrong”.