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Post by empirearmy on Feb 2, 2014 8:48:30 GMT -5
I like the new models. However here is my only comment.
Would it not make sense when GW posts up pre orders that they would also include the army book? Just saying. IS there even an army coming? Or is it just new models? Who knows what GW is thinking these days. I mean see that slayer bundle? It'll cost over $300 for that unit. WOW!
Just saying, where's the army book?
Oh GW you never cease to amaze me with your stupid decisions.
Mike
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Feb 2, 2014 10:05:10 GMT -5
they're switching to a weekly release schedule now....
when mantic is offering 20 hammerers for $25 (and Nexus stocks mantic) I'm not exactly sure what GW is thinking...
I mean their one player dwarf set for $50 (so ten bucks cheaper than buying 10 hammerers from GW) has:
10 hammerers, 2 cannons (that also can be assembled as organ guns), 10 thunderer/quarreler models, and 20 dwarf warriors with hand weapon/shield
the GW models are nicer for sure... I'll give them that, they make VERY nice models... but fantasy has blocks of 25+ in a unit... not every one needs to be a special snowflake...
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Post by Admiral Agrippa on Feb 2, 2014 10:47:38 GMT -5
Does GW even still sanction tournaments? Or even as many as they used to?
That seems to be the only reason (in my opinion) to have to buy GW models as they won't allow anything else through the door. Which, I guess, means if you are limited to only having a GW store in your area to play in you are hindered as well. Not a problem so much for those of us on this side of the pond.
For our local players, and the casual gamer (which is what I've unfortunately become), the wallet certainly benefits from third party manufacturers like Mantic (and that other company with those really nice Witch Elves).
For a company that lost nearly a quarter of their stock price last month, they certainly still seem to think that charging more is the key to making more. Though I'm sure someone on here at least once pointed out that when they tried charging less no one bought more - but if they charged less for the basic troop choices wouldn't that work cause people need large blocks of them to be viable.
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J4far
Immortal
Posts: 443
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Post by J4far on Feb 2, 2014 11:31:36 GMT -5
At least its not 10 for 70 like Witch Elves... Although I really would have like them to price the boxes at 50 for 10
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Feb 2, 2014 11:50:11 GMT -5
remember $45 for 20? wasn't that long ago  |
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Post by Admiral Agrippa on Feb 2, 2014 12:41:47 GMT -5
remember $45 for 20? wasn't that long ago I remember 20 guardsmen for $30 or $32 |
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Feb 2, 2014 16:52:23 GMT -5
From Faeit:
"Information on the new Dwarves is coming slow, and then there it is, someone has the second weeks White Dwarf with a report of new dwarves on horizon. Runelord, an Engineer character, along with the Gyrobomber and Gyrocopter.
Please remember that these are rumors until we get an official announcement. Still no army book mentioned, perhaps week 3?
via EddieJA on Warseer
So, I don't know if this has been discussed already, but a LGS near me was accidentally selling next week's White Dwarf early. The Dwarfs have a Gyrobomber coming, this kit also makes a new Gyrocopter. They are also getting a new Runelord, and Engineer Character, and the next White Dwarf has a picture of the new Dwarf Army Book. Also, if you look closely, you can see new Dwarf Ironbreakers. This new Ironbreakers kit also looks like it builds some kind of blunderbuss wielding shooting unit. This blunderbuss carrying unit might also have the option to build some kind of flamethrower gun, I'm not sure.
In review:
New Gyrobomber/Gyrocopter kit.
Engineer Character.
New Runelord.
Grainy pictures in next White Dwarf of new Ironbreakers, and it seems this kit also builds new ranged unit with large gun or blunderbuss option and possible flamethrower option.
via GrottoKnight on Warseer
-Yes Belegar has gromril. His Oathstone will be an extra points upgrade
-Thunderers/Quarrellers are CORE and RARE currently
-Gyrocopter is coming (see picture behind Slayer in video in "what's new"
-pg 27 of the WD says "Next week: Engineering Madness" in Designer Notes
-I would like to note that the Hammerers use GROMRIL hammers
ARMY RULES
It's basically 3 rules:
-Ancestral grudge, roll a D6 before the first turn. On 1-2 your general hates the enemy's general. On 3-4 your characters hate all enemy characters. On 5-6 your army hates the entire enemy army.
-Resolute, charging units have +1 strength
-Relentless, cannot be marchblocked.
(NOTICE: no -1 to flee and pursue rolls? I figured this would go with how movement and charging changed and all.)"
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Feb 5, 2014 9:57:18 GMT -5
dammit... I want dwarfs...
stacking runes for increased effects eh? sounds pretty sweet
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Post by stonecutter on Feb 5, 2014 20:46:39 GMT -5
I guess they want it to look like a bargain compared to the $80-$100 special big monster kits  |
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Post by usscott on Feb 6, 2014 0:16:48 GMT -5
No one need to buy more then 20 for anyone unit just make uintfillers
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Feb 6, 2014 7:08:43 GMT -5
well I'm considering front rankers GW and the majority of the unit going with mantic... it's certainly making my squat project for 40K affordable (the GW fliers I got cost more than the rest of the army combined!)
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Feb 7, 2014 16:20:10 GMT -5
from Faeit: "Continuing their information that is rumored to be directly from the armybook, and revealing the Iron Drakes yesterday, we have more information on the Dwarves. Its time to look again at the Grybomber/Gyrocopter, Dwarven Runes, and Rangers. Please remember that these are still rumors. If you missed this sources first reveal, here is the link. natfka.blogspot.com/2014/02/dwarven-rules-leaked-including-new-rare.html Also here was a different source that was verifying the first, and adding to it. natfka.blogspot.com/2014/02/someone-with-dwarf-armybook-verifies.html via a must remain anonymous source on Faeit 212 **** The cost of the Gyrocopter has dropped significantly - Nearly 20 points and moved to special instead of rare - which is where the Gyrobomber is. There are about 3 pages of Runes to choose from. Some of the Runes have different "levels". One that I remember that caught my eye is a Demon Slaying Rune: When purchased at its maximum "level" it grants the wielder 2+ to hit, 2+ to wound, No Ward Save and either d6 or d3 multiple wounds. However that Rune is like 100+ points. Rangers were moved to Rare Slayers essentially remained the same - I don't recall any Ward Save for them, so still squishy with no armor. They are Special choice. Gotrek and Felix are not in the book, however I suspect we could see a Battlescroll later on." |
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Feb 10, 2014 9:48:02 GMT -5
more from Faeit:
"It looks like the gates are open, and the information is flowing now. Someone has the book and is taking questions and laying it all out for us to see for the upcoming Dwarf's armybook.
Please remember that even these are considered to be rumors until we get the official release.
via Saldiven (Bugman)
The Gyrocopter is a Special choice, and you can take up to 6. They are not squadrons; there's just a little note that says you can take six of them.
The Gyrobomber is a Rare choice.
Rangers are, in fact, a Rare choice, as well.
Gromril armor is just a 4+ save; I don't recall there being a ward save included as well.
Dwarf Crafted is a rule for missile weapons. It allows the weapon to be fired as a Stand and Shoot reaction without the -1 penalty.
The thing that surprised me the most about the book is the large number of ways that you can get the Multiple Wounds (d3). It's freaking everywhere.
Another thing is the Rune that's a better version of Red Fury. If you take three Runes of Fury, the model gets +1 Attack, Frenzy, and for every successful To-Hit roll, the model makes another attack roll; these bonus attacks do not generate additional attacks. If you put that on a Lord, it would have 6 attacks that could theoretically generate another 6. In case you didn't notice, the extra attacks are generated by successful To-Hit rolls, not wounds.
Oh, yeah, the Flame Cannon now has two firing modes. The first is just like a regular Flame Cannon from the main rule book. Alternatively, it can be overcharged so that you can nominate a point up to 12" from the Flame Cannon to be the point from which the artillery die roll originates for determining where the template ends up. But, if you fire in this mode and roll a misfire, you subtract 1 from the roll on the black powder weapon misfire table.
Hrm. Lemme see what I can remember. Most things have Heavy Armor now, even the artillery crew, if I remember correctly. The new units are the Bomber and the Iron Drakes. I don't recall any others.
Slayers didn't really change much, I don't think. I never played them before. They still have the Slayer Axe rule. They can never wound anything on worse than a 4+. There's a special character Slayer that has a 3+/4++, and if you take him, he can be the Army General.
The Organ Gun is now BS based, but rolls two artillery dice, rather than one. It can be given up to 50 points of Runes, and there's a +1 to hit Rune. Also, the range is now 30"; I seem to remember that it was 24" before. Is my memory correct in that.
The 'Copter has a once per game Diver Bomber attack that is kind of similar to the Drop Rocks attack of that flying unit in the Lizardmen book have. The basic weapon for the 'Copter is a S3 Flame Template, but can be traded for free to a 18" S5 Multiple Shot (4) gun. I'm pretty sure it's 4 shots. Up to half of the 'Copters in the army (rounded up) can be given a 20 point upgrade that allows them a Vanguard move. I'm really liking the idea of Vanguarding up a couple of them to move into position to five the template down the length of units from outside their charge arc.
The Master Rune of Balance only steals a die on a roll of 4+. All the rune-guys can channel.
I wasn't really impressed with the Anvil. The first power makes all friendly units within 12" (or it might be 24", can't remember) Immune to Psychology for a turn. The next one buffs a target unit's Armor Save by one (I think, really not sure on this one, can't remember for sure). And the last one is a S4 magic missile that inflicts 2d6 hits, I believe. They all work like bound spells.
Daemon Slayers make their opponent re-roll successful ward saves. Dragon Slayers have the Multiple Wound (d3) rule.
Oh, the bomb thing that the 'Drakes can get is an 8" range weapon that functions kind of like a Stone Thrower. I can't remember the Strength of it. It seems kind of risky, though, since to be close enough to use it, you're close enough for it to land back on top of you.
I believe that Ironbreakers and Hammerers are both 14 points, base. 'Breakers can get a shield for 1 point. Sheildwall is a rule that on the turn the unit is charged, they get +1 to their Parry save. There's another rule that's like "Gromril Shield Wall" or something, and I think I remember that this gives the +1 to Parry save at all times.
One thing for sure, Dwarves will no longer be shutting down the magic phase. Rune-guys can channel for Dispel Dice, but don't automatically provide them. The army gets a base +2 to attempt to dispel, regardless of what's in the army. The Master Rune of Valaya adds another +2 to dispel, and will dispel any RiP spell on a roll (can't remember the target number, I think it's a 3+) at the beginning of the Magic Phase. There's no range, so any RiP spell on the table has to be rolled for.
I'll look for more specifics on the Rune-guys tomorrow.
I'm pretty sure you can still take multiple Runes of Spellbreaking. The Spelleating one still exists, too.
Like I said, I might be mistaken about the dispel dice thing; I didn't read the book cover-to-cover, or anything. I'm very confident about the +2 to dispel; but there might also be somewhere else that mentions additional "free" dispel dice.
Oh, I actually kind of like the Oathstone now. I never used it in the last book, but I seem to remember that if you planted the Oathstone, the unit couldn't move anymore. Or was that the previous army book? Anyway, the Oathstone doesn't now prevent the unit from moving. The unit can use Parry saves in any direction and cannot have their ranks Disrupted.
The base 'Copter cost is 80. The Vanguard move upgrade is 20 points.
No big centerpiece model. In fact, the only unit types in the book are Infantry, Warmachine, and "Unique."
The Flame Cannon also has Multiple Wounds (d3).
@blind bum: It's the actual army book. By "demo book," meant that it was a single copy given to the store. They used to do this a lot before. The store owner was actually willing to sell it to me today, but I didn't want to take it away from all the other people that might want to look at it just to have it a week earlier than normal.
Miners use regular Ambush rules now. They can be upgraded to have a single use missile weapon, but I kind of thought it was too expensive for what it does. The Drill still exists and gives a +1 to the roll to see if they show up.
I actually kind of like Ironbreakers. With Shields, they are T4 with a 3+/5++. They're 14 points, just like Hammerers. Hammerers are more offensive minded, but still only have a 5+ save from the Heavy Armor.
Slayers did have one cool rule, but dunno how worthwhile it'll be in play. If a close combat attack (excluding Impact Hits) reduces a Slayer to 0 wounds, that Slayer model makes a free attack right then before pulling the model. Other than the special timing of the Attack, it's treated like a regular attack roll. This includes being killed by Stomp, for example. So, if you're facing something like Ogres, when the Ogres swing, the models they kill automatically attack back. Then the remaining eligible Slayers make their regular attacks. Then, any models killed by the Ogres' Stomp attack make their free attacks.
I kind of remember that just a lot of units have Shieldwall. I know I remember that regular old Warriors have the rule. Ironbreakers have the upgraded rule (something like Gromril Shieldwall, or something) that allows them to (I believe) have the bonus +1 to Parry all the time. I'll check to make sure tomorrow.
Dwarves do NOT have access to the Main Rulebook magic items, but they have an extensive listing of
Runic items. There's one page of unique Runic items. Two pages of weapon runes. One page each for Armor, Standard, Talisman, and Warmachine Runes. So, all told, a total seven pages of what amount to Magic Items, with a huge amount of customization possible. Several runes can be taken multiple times, with each additional rune bringing an added benefit. My favorite example is the one I posted earlier with the Rune of Fury: 1 gives you +1 Attack; 2 gives you +1 Attack and Frenzy; 3 gives you +1 Attack, Frenzy, and each successful To-Hit roll results in a bonus attack (bonus attacks do not generate additional attacks). On a Lord, that means he's got a chance of 12 attacks.
Master Engineers allow re-rolls to a dice involved in firing warmachines. If the Engineer is within 3" of a Warmachine, he can take a Look Out Sir! roll from shooting attacks, and successful rolls divert the shot to the Warmachine. There's more, but that's all I can remember right now.
Oh, Bugman allows you to convert one unit of Rangers into what might as well be Longbeard Rangers, but if you do, then Bugman must start in that unit and cannot leave it. It costs an extra 3 points per model, and the Rangers get +1 to WS/S/and I think Initiative, but not positive about the last stat. He still has the healing draught cup. He also has a special rule where each turn you roll two dice and look at a chart to see what affect his Ale has on the affected units (can't remember which units are affected). A roll of 2 kinda sucks. There are two other effects, but I can't remember them off the top of my head. I think one is Immune to Psychology until the next Dwarf turn. I think the other is +1 Toughness til the next Dwarf turn; it's something like that because the fluff for it talks about how the Dwarves are kinda hammered and can't feel pain anymore.
I'm almost certain it's one free attack per slain Slayer. However, it gets to use whatever special rules apply to that attack. So, if you were swinging with the Great Weapon Slayer Axe, it's getting the bonus Strength. If it's a character with a Runic Weapon, the attack has the benefits of the Runic Weapon. Oh, here's an interesting one. I'm pretty sure it was one of the Special Characters, but there's a way to get +3 to the roll at the beginning of the game to see what kind of Hatred you get. So, with that guy, the whole army has Hatred of the other guy's army on a 2+ roll. I wanna say it's the super expensive Dwarf King guy (he's like 650 points), but not positive."
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Feb 10, 2014 9:48:39 GMT -5
and even more:
"In less than a week we will have the Dwarf armybook in hand, and from all the rumors we have had, there are a few sets out there are the most reliable bits of information as to what will be in there. I've compiled these here.
Please remember that these are still rumors, although I rate them very high. Here is what we know.
Dwarven Rules:
Ancestral Grudge - hatred Skaven/Greenskins; everyone else has a chart.
Dwarf Made - Re rolls
Resolute - +1 Strength on the charge
Relentless - no leadership for marching close to an enemy
Shieldwall - +1 parry when charged
Dwarves no longer have -1 to move when charging/fleeing.
Dwarven Runes
There are about 3 pages of Runes to choose from. Some of the Runes have different "levels". One that I remember that caught my eye is a Demon Slaying Rune: When purchased at its maximum "level" it grants the wielder 2+ to hit, 2+ to wound, No Ward Save and either d6 or d3 multiple wounds. However that Rune is like 100+ points.
Runes are broken down like so: Rune of Blah Cost: X/Y/Z. x-y-z is the number of runes of that type you can place on an item, increasing its cost. Description of its exact rules follows a brief "fluff" description. One thing of note: A cannon can have up to 100 pts of Runes!
Conflicting reports, even from me, concerning number of runes. There are 2x Weapon Rune pages, 4 additional pages with Armor/Banner/Talisman/Engineering Runes. 1x Ancestral Heirloom page (specific named items).
Dwarven Lords and Heroes (known Ungrim/Joseph Bugman/Thorek/Thorgrim)
Added characters: (2) seen in white dwarf weekly, Ungrim Slayer-King, Joseph Bugman, High King Thorgrim
Gotrek and Felix are not in the book, however I suspect we could see a Battlescroll later on.
Thorek is in the book. Bugman is a hero level.
Dwarven Core (Warriors/Quarrelers/Thunderers/Longbeards)
Warriors:
*Stayed the same but with the new rules above.
Thundereres/ Quarrellers:
*Thunders/Quarrlers: +1 point, with new rules above and heavy armor
Longbeards:
*new rules above + old longbeard rules, +1 point, no longer 1 unit for every unit of warriors.
Dwarven Special (Hammers/Ironbreakers/Slayers/Miners/Cannon/Grudge Thrower/Bolt Thrower/Gyrocopter)
Hammers:
*don't remember points but looked the same; if general is present in unit, any, ANY model can accept a challenge.
Iron Breakers:
*pretty much the same, +1 parry bonus always!, stacks with Shieldwall rule, so 4+ ward save if charged!
Gyrocopter
*got a huge drop in points, almost half, and is now a special, not rare.
*The cost of the Gyrocopter has dropped significantly and moved to special
*it is nearly 1/2 the original point cost. For approx. 100 pts you can field 1 with vanguard. You can have 6 in an army and 12 in grand army. It has a template gun as before that can be swapped out for a Brimstone Cannon: 18", str 5, armor piercing, dwarf crafted, multiple shot d3, quick to fire.
Slayers
*essentially remained the same - I don't recall any Ward Save for them, so still squishy with no armor.
*No plastic slayers. This doesn't mean they aren't coming (because we don't have finecast versions and still metal) in plastic; just means that at the time of the books production they were not ready or painted. We have seen this before.
Dwarven Rare (Organ Gun/Flame Cannon/Ranger/ Irondrakes / Gyrobomber). It is possible I got one of the Rare and Special guns flip flopped.
Gyrobomber
*Gyrobomber is rare
*In movement phase can drop bombs (place large blast, scatter, if it still hits a unit it passed over then resolve wounds, scatter from the center hole again with a small blast as bomb bounces). In the shooting phase it can shoot its cannon.
*cheaper than the gyrocopter's price from the previous book by 15 points.
*The Clattergun is 24", Str 4, armor piercing, dwarf crafted, multiple shot (4), quick to fire. both Gyro's can get vanguard.
Rangers
*Rangers were moved to Rare
Iron Drakes
*New Unit (Rare): Good stat line, handheld flame cannon (str5, 18", armor piercing, dwarf made, flaming attacks, ), they also have armor gromil-proven armor (I think) that gives 4+/6+ward/2+ward vs. flaming attacks."
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Feb 10, 2014 10:00:34 GMT -5
hmmm look what is on the back of the assembly instructions for the new hammerer/longbeard kits:
basic statlines!
hammerers going to two attacks was sorely needed. Pretty much guarenteed I'm restarting a dwarf army...lol... now I just need to be able to make it in time for Thursdays! (maybe I need to try and make it to second game rather than first game? hmmm)
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