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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jul 12, 2010 14:05:27 GMT -5
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Post by danydaigle24 on Jul 12, 2010 14:49:53 GMT -5
LOL! poor wood elves...
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Post by thesanityassassin on Jul 12, 2010 15:42:11 GMT -5
Ouch! Can't say that was unexpected though. They REALLY don't seem like they can compete in this one.
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Post by thesanityassassin on Jul 12, 2010 16:03:56 GMT -5
I'm just somewhat shocked that GW would post up their 8th battle report as someone getting tabled in 4 turns compared to nearly no losses at all for the other army. Doesn't seem like a good way to push the game to me....
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jul 12, 2010 16:25:23 GMT -5
sadly, that seems to be what 8th is going to be for some armies....
at least they were somewhat honest in what would have happened with that matchup!
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Post by fritzthedwarf on Jul 12, 2010 21:29:37 GMT -5
Yeah it is surprising that GW would use a massacre to highlight 8th edition. Now it did seem as though the Dwarf player was better prepared and luckier than the wood elf player but as I'm not that familiar with wood elves others can comment on whether Rich could have made a better list and played better (as he indicated). Still, I think I'll have to take another look at the Anvil of Doom (always wanted a way to get miners into combat the turn they arrived).
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jul 13, 2010 5:44:04 GMT -5
.... well the "power build" (if they could actually have such a thing) in 7th was double treeman, which Rich had... he also had the "machine gun altar lord" which is tooled up nicely for dwarfs (no armor save, hits on 2's lots of shots)... and a spellweaver is pretty much the only chance that wood elf had to get some spells through... and was using a new lore! and hit the tower that gave her all the spells!
his solution of bringing a unit of 8 treekin instead to up his chances was somewhat laughable... given the treekin took 5 wounds right off the bat from the grudge thrower... I mean, if he did such a point sink as 8 the dwarf would... I don't know... shoot maybe twice at it?
I'd love to know what he could have taken instead... when I read his list it looked like a pretty strong wood elf list, that pretty much used all his choices other than great eagles and waywatchers... neither of which would have really helped him....
oh and Mark, the nice thing is now with percentages you can bring BOTH a dwarf lord and a runelord with anvil... save points by leaving the runesmith at home...
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Post by stonecutter on Jul 13, 2010 8:42:36 GMT -5
Looking at the lists in the game, the wood elf player shouldn't have bothered bringing the 2 x treeman or the treekin vs dwarves - the threat of flaming attacks and cannon shots anywhere on the board means a quick death for a lot of points. In a similar vein, the eternal guard are craptacular and a complete waste. Essentially then, he wasted a 1,000 points on units that were worthless or guaranteed dead by turn 2.
I actually had a game of woodies vs Empire last night and the woodies came out victorious (mind you, it was my opponent's first game in 8th ed!!) For their points, treekin still are not worth it but despite losing a lot with the new skirmishing rules, I found dryads to be surprisingly effective in units of 15 with champ spread in two ranks. This gave the unit 23 x S4 attacks at I6, which is not bad at all. Parked in a woods, they were steadfast and able to hold up against the charge of inner circle knights tooled up with a couple characters. Using a 4th level caster and lore of beasts, I buffed them up to S5/T5, which made them really effective vs squishy T3, lightly armoured troops. The wild riders were also excellent as the vanguard move put them in charge range of war machines and missile troops on turn 1 - after giving my opponent first move by rolling 1 on the d6 ;D The archers were also as effective as ever and while a treeman might be useful, he would never survive an Empire gunline let alone a dwarf one with flaming cannons that can hit anywhere on the board!! Overall, the woodies still lack static combat resolution and nothing short of a new book is going to correct that!!
Going back to the dwarf/woodie battle in question, I think the woodies would have been better off going with loads of dryads, archers and wild riders - many small units to take out war machines and missile troops and avoid the blocks for the first few turns. Backed by a couple 4th levels and the lore of beasts (thus ensuring every spell), a BSB and a couple branchwraiths for close combat buffed by spells and the annoyance to delay key dwarf characters, I think they might have even won combat. If all else failed, the caster could have transformed into a mountain chimera or dragon and led the charge!!!
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jul 13, 2010 11:10:30 GMT -5
why exactly would inner circle knights charge dryads in a wood? that seems like a rather bad idea....
Treekin are just not a good idea I think.... now if that ward save was not negated by any magical attack, that may change things a great deal...!
I'm not sold on the effectiveness of eternal guard... even if you bring a highborn + spellweaver option (which kind of seems like a fairly good idea on paper - as you cannot hide the ancient anymore - and lore of beasts is far superior to lore of athel loren)
I agree that vs. the dwarf player, bringing treemen and treekin was a huge point sink that was going to die very easily... I'm just not sure that these choices are that great anymore (and I used to really like the treeman)
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Post by stonecutter on Jul 13, 2010 14:52:45 GMT -5
I agree that the treeman is well nigh useless now since he can be shot up anywhere on the board and is too slow to make it across the board before getting smoked by magic and/or shooting. Praying for forests on the board is the only reliable tactic that will help woodies until a new book arrives so I'll continue to focus my efforts in this area ;D
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