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Post by calitom on Apr 8, 2013 13:59:10 GMT -5
So, figured since like 1/3 of the tournament scene around here is Chaos, I'm gonna hold off on getting the NL finished and instead do something with all these Grey Knights I have sitting around. However I'm setting some very specific limitations on list building to try to stay away from the more silly builds of GK, so I have to actually use some tactics to play the game and so I can feel accomplished after winning a game with them as they aren't the best codex anymore by a long shot. So, no Purifier spam, no special characters, no henchmen spam and no allies are my parameters I'm setting for myself as far as limitations go, though I may or may not use Crowe as an HQ choice simply because he himself is likely the weakest choice (other then killing Terminators and blowing up MC) and because I already own the model and like him a lot- though that means I'd limit myself to 2 Purifier squads in such a list... anyways.
I have a basic shell I want to use in each list and can kind of play around with the rest of the stuff but here's the basic shell :
20 PA Grey Knights 10 Terminator Grey Knights
So I want each list to at least include these models and have some things I can rely on- meanwhile being able to play around with the rest of the list to see what kinds of builds I can come up with and tweak the strategies with each. First list is going to be a more assault oriented list I have in mind using Dreadknights and a LRC.
HQ Ordo Xenos Inquisitor (Psyker ML1, Force Axe, Psychotroke Grenades, Rad grenades) Ordo Malleus Inquisitor (Psyker ML1, Terminator armor, Nemesis Daemon Hammer, Psycannon) - Warlord
Elite 9 Deathcult assassins (Power Maul, Power Axe)
Troops 10 PA Grey Knights (2 Psycannons, Psybolt ammo) 10 PA Grey Knights (2 Psycannons, Psybolt ammo) 10 GK Terminators (2 Psycannons, Psybolt ammo, 4 Hammers, 6 Swords)
Heavy Support LRC (Psybolt ammo) Dreadknight (Sword, Teleporter) Dreadknight (Sword, Teleporter)
2000 points
I'd love to have Incinerators on the Dreadknights but had to shave 60 points so figured that was the easiest place to drop points from without losing too much viability in the unit- it's still a big scary, fast moving CC monster that I can pressure people with. The Malleus Inq. will support the Terminators, and the Xenos Inq. will go with his psycho chicks in the LRC to counter assault and punch things. I'll generally anchor the army with the terminators and LRC, using the Strike Squads to either give Warp Quake backup or to Deep strike and support mid-field.
Here is the other Balanced list I tried out on Saturday, which has 260 points to float around-
HQ Ordo Malleus Inquisitor (Psyker ML1, Terminator armor, Nemesis Daemon Hammer, Psycannon) - Warlord
Elite Callidus Assassin 5 Paladins (2 Psycannons, 2 Hammers, 3 Swords)
Troops 10 PA Grey Knights (2 Psycannons, Psybolt ammo) 10 PA Grey Knights (2 Psycannons, Psybolt ammo) 10 GK Terminators (2 Psycannons, Psybolt ammo, 4 Hammers, 6 Swords)
Heavy Support Rifleman Dreadnought (Psybolt ammo) Rifleman Dreadnought (Psybolt ammo)
1740 points
The 260 can be a tricked out Dreadknight, LRC or a fully kitted out Stormraven... perhaps another HQ choice and a razorback PA GK squad.
Overall I'm liking how the base of my list feels and want to play around with stuff and actually get stuff painted as soon as I decide on a color scheme.
Thoughts?
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Apr 8, 2013 14:14:49 GMT -5
stylistically I prefer list two with a dreadknight with your extra points... stormraven is kind of "meh" to me... you're packing alot of psycannons in the list... the assassin seems like a fun wild card that can run about wrecking havoc... just a cool disruption unit that you just don't see very much... so I like it... I kind of like the fact that you're essentially walking everything up the board in a kind of "come at me bro" way... it strikes a cool chord with me... I figure if you go Crowe you can shave some DK upgrades and switch out the PA grey knights for purifiers to get the same model count and general overall theme... I like it.. and it seems pretty solid and tough, but leaves out some of the auto-win buttons so keeps the battles closer and more tactical. however I will point out that your avatar's hair colour is wrong, which makes it very distracting to comment on your list
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Post by calitom on Apr 8, 2013 14:50:13 GMT -5
There, changed it happy?
Also yeah, I like the Strike Knight's versatility in their ability to deep strike... makes it nice to not be stuck to a specific foot slogging strategy based on terrain and the opposing army.
Though I do really want to try list 1 as well, and on the Crowe idea- yeah I think he's super sweet, though he may not be very survivable...
Here'd be a list with him in mind :
HQ Ordo Malleus Inquisitor (Psyker ML1, Terminator armor, Nemesis Daemon Hammer, Psycannon) - Warlord Crowe
Troops 10 PA Grey Knights (2 Psycannons, Psybolt ammo) 10 PA Grey Knights (2 Psycannons, Psybolt ammo) 10 GK Terminators (2 Psycannons, Psybolt ammo, 4 Hammers, 6 Swords) 10 Purifiers (3 Psycannons, Psybolt ammo, 2 Hammers, 5 Halberds) 10 Purifiers (3 Psycannons, Psybolt ammo, 2 Hammers, 5 Halberds)
1830
So I can add some razorbacks / rhinos for the purifiers and something else minor like a battle psyker squad, or a Callidus and some upgrades... hm
If going razorbacks I'd drop a halberd for an incinerator and a psycannon for an incinerator so I could combat squad and have the 5 with two incinerators, 1 hammer and 2 halberds jump out of the razorback to melt people.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Apr 8, 2013 17:09:58 GMT -5
Nope... still wrong.... very distracting.... list looks good... hard to shift... lots ofscoring and firepower... good CC...
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Post by LizardTau on Apr 9, 2013 4:50:04 GMT -5
i like the base of the army. Strike squads are very versitile, my army always have three full with 2 psycannons in it with or without psybolt.
I had never deep struck them but after playing against it, that many str 5 and str 7 shots is really nice from a deep striking unit, i can see it working well against a static army or even some non static ones. Then you can play around with the rest of the army.
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Post by calitom on Apr 22, 2013 23:55:59 GMT -5
Playing around with more ideas, though slightly different this still uses my core and some of the other stuff I want- though I need to choose certain heavy support options.
HQ Ordo Xenos Inquisitor (Psyker ML1, Force Axe, Psychotroke Grenades, Rad grenades) Draigo
Troops 10 PA Grey Knights (Halberd, 2 Psycannons, Psybolt ammo) 10 PA Grey Knights (Halberd, 2 Psycannons, Psybolt ammo) 10 Paladins (4 Psycannons, 5 Hammers, 5 Swords)
Heavy support Dreadknight (Sword, Heavy Incinerator, Personal Teleporter) Landraider Crusader (Psybolt ammo)
I like the idea of this list a lot and want to try it out as I feel Landraiders have their place as a durable weapons platform in 6th edition- sure Necrons and Deep Striking melta still kill them, but practically everyone else has huge issues with them now and the psybolted LRC brings a huge amount of firepower to bear and can hold Draigo, 5 paladins and the Inquisitor as a mini hammer unit if the mission / opponent calls for it.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Apr 23, 2013 5:29:48 GMT -5
I'm liking the previous lists better actually...
edit....
guess I should clarify why...
the draigo + paladin + landraider seems like more of a typical rock list... roll up, assault, smash everything with your OP character and double wound terminator bodyguard... it's like TH/SS termies on crack... if the opponent can't deal with the deathstar you win... not sure that fits with your stated mission with the knights... to stay away from the netlists and play them aggressively and competitively but different... I put Draigo in the same boat as Eldrad... whenever he's on the table I just kind of groan... wait, scratch that, Eldrad is still worse... but we'll call Draigo a near second...
my own personal biases though, probably held over from 5th, where Draigo + paladins = netlist win (for a while anyways)...
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Post by calitom on Apr 23, 2013 5:42:34 GMT -5
My big thing is I love the idea of paladins too much... they're more what I thought space marines should be- expensive but tough to kill in general- though giving them an apothecary is tempting...
Though if it looks better I could drop the halberds and LRC for two Rifleman dreads and be incredibly similar to the previous lists minus the Callidus assassin.
And yeah, I understand what you mean- though Draigo being AP 3 really makes him WAY worse then he was in 5th, and in fact even worse then Eldrad then he was before. Beyond killing 3+ armor save units all he is, is a more survivable Grand Master for slightly more points.
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Post by calitom on Apr 23, 2013 6:00:09 GMT -5
But yes, I guess it is moving slightly away from my original idea of wanting to do something different and still be successful with it. I do still really like Paladins though, so am wanting to try to use them and the only way I see them being a viable choice for their points requires I have a Grand Master of some capacity to have the option to make them scoring so I'm not stuck with a 630-705 point unit not being scoring... Here's the amendment to the list, then.
HQ Ordo Malleus Inquisitor (Psyker ML1, Terminator armor, Nemesis Daemon Hammer, Psycannon) Grand Master - Warlord
Elite 10 Paladins (4 Psycannons, 5 Hammers, 5 Swords)
Troops 10 PA Grey Knights (2 Psycannons, Psybolt ammo) 10 PA Grey Knights (2 Psycannons, Psybolt ammo)
Heavy Support Rifleman Dreadnought (Psybolt ammo) Rifleman Dreadnought (Psybolt ammo) Dreadknight (Sword, Heavy Incinerator, Personal Teleporter)
1925 points
Now I can either add an apothecary to the Paladins for FnP, or I can do a combination of Funny Grenades and a Hammer on the Grand Master and have 40 points leftover to put two hammers in each Strike Squad... I've narrowed it down to these two choices as 75 points is difficult to spend in the Gk codex without looking to henchmen (which I want to avoid at all costs if possible.).
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Apr 23, 2013 6:46:48 GMT -5
oh... I wasn't aware he was AP3... thought he had a hammer... okay he's not as bad in 6th I guess...
what about the idea you were playing around with before with Mordrak? he seemed cool... the grand master can hand out scoring so you can still have scoring paladins with the above list (I'm assuming the plan was combat squadding them?) hmmmm Mordrak has grand strategy too... could always trade out your HQ's for Mordrak and try and fit him and some ghost terminators in...
that way you'd have an incredibly hard to kill warlord who could make the paladins scoring... a LOT of tough uber-marines on the table including a great disruption unit with the ghost termies (which offer you some cool tactics rather than run forward and shoot psycannons... that way everything on the table is an uber-marine in some shape or form?
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Apr 23, 2013 6:51:00 GMT -5
ran it through army builder and you could sub your HQ's & two psycannons for Mordrak and five buddies... trimming a few of the dreadknight options could easily get you the other two psycannons...
sorry, I think Mordrak is cool...
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Post by calitom on Apr 23, 2013 6:51:46 GMT -5
Yeah, he's 200 points, so just turning the Grand Master into him would mean I'd have 50 points left, so I'd have to move anywhere from 110-150 points around to give him a suitably sized ghost terminator squad, hm. I mean I do like him- though he is incredibly risky as warlord simply due to being upfront practically by himself right off the bat I'll play around with the idea though, I do like him too.
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Post by calitom on Apr 23, 2013 8:46:54 GMT -5
As cool as Mordrak is, he's too much risk vs consistency for a tournament list IMO and I'd have to shift my list too much when I like the numbers of what I have in this one, so gonna just pimp out my Grand master and call it a day. He winds up costing 250 points, but a BS 6 mastercrafted psycannon and all the other goodies are worth it so he isn't just an AP 3 sword that makes paladins troops.
HQ Ordo Malleus Inquisitor (Psyker ML1, Terminator armor, Nemesis Daemon Hammer, Psycannon) Grand Master (Nemesis Daemon Hammer, Mastercrafted Psycannon, Blind Grenades, Rad Grenades) - Warlord
Elite 10 Paladins (4 Psycannons, 5 Hammers, 5 Swords)
Troops 10 PA Grey Knights (2 Psycannons, Psybolt ammo) 10 PA Grey Knights (2 Psycannons, Psybolt ammo)
Heavy Support Rifleman Dreadnought (Psybolt ammo) Rifleman Dreadnought (Psybolt ammo) Dreadknight (Sword, Heavy Incinerator, Personal Teleporter)
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Post by danydaigle24 on Apr 23, 2013 9:14:06 GMT -5
thats a very elite list but Im sure you will do great with it. Would be different to many Chaos right now.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Apr 23, 2013 12:13:50 GMT -5
I like it... seems solid... full of scoring and hard as rock models that are a pain to remove and tough in shooting and assault.. yeah, fits the uber-marine theme very well...
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