defiler vs. Terms

[Silent one]

I am building a new list and I am trying to decide between 2 units. I thought I would ask the community thoughts on this. The e units are as follows

225-deflier - TL lascannons - Havoc Launcher
-Dirge Caster

217-Terminators-champ + 4
- all have power fist and combi-bolter Mark of Tzeentch (+1 to inv sv)

Let me know what u think and feel free to ask any questions

[J4far]

Wrong sub! As much as terminators would be fun in WHFB...

[Jack Shrapnel]

whoops didn't catch that... I'll move it over so more see it that can comment - I'd give my two cents but I've never played a defiler so can't really comment!

[Frosty the Pirate]

So, I'm not a chaos player, but here's my thoughts on those units:

Defiler - There's nothing wrong with the Lascannon/Havoc Launcher, however if your planning on using that (expensive) Battle Cannon you already paid for when you choose the Defiler, those extra guns are going to be snap-firing any turn you fire that Battle Cannon because of the Ordnance USR. Dirge Caster is a great choice on a Defiler, and I would make sure to keep that in any case.

Termies - These guys look ok, but are you planning on walking them? Deep-striking? If the answer is deep striking, having some combi-weapons like melta or plasma for the turn you drop in is completely worth it. Having to stand there and do nothing except ping off a couple bolter rounds with your 200+ point unit will feel very underwhelming.

Defiler vs Termies - So, this comparison is a strange one, because we have 2 units that really do very different things. Termies are a 2nd wave "gap filling" unit you can use to respond to a threat you can't handle atm. While the Defiler is a rush forward first wave unit that wants to close with the enemy ASAP and apply pressure/damage/scream "DEAL WITH ME PUNK".

The bottom line is, it's going to be tough to determine which is "better" in a vacuum, because the rest of your list around those units will make a very big difference as to how effective they are. (If you post your list we'll be able to give you a much better answer)

If you just want to decide which to take, bring the Defiler if you want a unit to threaten your opponent and make them try to deal with it, bring the termies if you want to counter-attack and deal with an opponent's threat.

[voodoo]

I agree a lot with what Ray said but as a long standing chaos player I see where you're coming from. The defiler loadout seems to suggest heavy armor/heavy troop hunting. As Ray said paying for the other guns is a points waste as you want it firing the battle cannon every turn it's able.

Chaos terminators with powerfists and MoT are going to be survivable and killy but slow moving and not as good at armor hunting as 2 with chainfists and a boatload of combi meltas. Combi-Plasma also works but they're the same point cost and melta is a surer bet considering you only get the one shooting phase out of it.

As armed the terminators aren't worth taking over the defiler as any armor will move away before they can assault and their ranged weapons only threaten light troops.

However! Armed differently say:

Tzeentch Terminators (5) - 5x MoT, 4x Bolter-Melta, 2x Chainfist = 226
OR
Tzeentch Terminators (4) - 4x MoT, 4X Bolter-Melta, 4x Chainfist = 219

They're a solid backfield armor destroying force that can also handle heavy troops or a mix therein if you take option one and arm the rest with swords or axes. Plus you've then got a really tough tick like unit that gains cover from lots of stuff, has a nasty 4+ invul and the ability to melta the smile off any tank commander.

[Silent one]

This is the list I am working on atm. The spot I am trying to fill is 225 points. Thank you very much for the thoughts so far they have been very helpful. Also thank you for moving the post totally didn't see I was in the wrong section.

195 - Choas lord - blight grenades
Burning Brand of skal
Mark/palanquin nurge 1t 2w 1a
Sigil of corruption
Power sword

2x130-Hellbrute - Lasconnon
-power fist combi bolter
50 -Cultist x9 - autopistol - champ

2x 178-Plaguemarines x6+champ meltgun

154 -Plaguemarines x5+champ- meltgun
- champ
3x 170-helldrake
-2x baleflamer
Hades autocannon

2x 125 -Vindicator - combi bolter

Ty for the ideas and help

[voodoo]

I can not recommend relic predators highly enough. The plasma destroyer is intense. List looks rough, I like plague marines but I'm too highly addicted to zombies and typhus to give them up.

[thesanityassassin]

Looks nasty, the triple drake is going to scare anyone.

My biggest concern for you would be to get more troops in somehow. As tough as plague marines are, you're still sitting at 3 units of marines on foot and some cultists. I know my White Scars for example, while terrified of your drakes and vindicators, could EASILY take all of your troops units off the table in 2 turns and then just coast/hide to grab objectives late.

If not more troops, then something tough like Nurgle Spawn or Bikers that can advance aggressively and hopefully draw some anti-infantry fire away from your troop units, because as it stands, anything S6 and below basically HAS to target your Troops choices....give them a tough, scary infantry unit to worry about.