Stop Tank Shocking Me Already!

[Jack Shrapnel]

Okay... this is a carryover from a previous tactic thread on the Falcon... more specifically on....

how to stop someone from tank shocking you off an objective!

I'd love to start this tactic discussion with some brilliant strategy to prevent this from happening....

....but I don't know any!

therefore - how do you stop that? death or glory seems like a bad plan..... and bubble wrap doesn't work....

(and my nids can't get vehicles to hide in too! they need to be safe! think of the baby gaunts!)

[usscott]

OK sorry for the bad spell be for i get start it . like i said have play a lot of 40k in year but win i did and i sure it close to the same nid are and have was been in number so thing use a defaces in deep try work on layer of of troop what mid of death and glory if u need to win i play nid in the past win in the past we wave for hromges move fast hod the lie tie up troops the we have the gs the win the combat we use the big and as hard as u can to draw fire .like i said it been a long time that i play nids and i have yet to read the new book

[thesanityassassin]

The easiest way of course is to make sure that you have mechanized units of your own to sit on those objectives, stopping the enemy from pushing you off of them. But, as Shannon said above, that isn't always an option for a lot of armies, who either lack transports, or whose vehicles are too fragile to reliably sit on the objective without being destroyed....

SO. First choice is of course to make those vehicles the priority target of your tactics for the battle. And this goes far beyond just "shoot at 'em till they blow up". Remember that your #1 goal is to keep them from suddenly replacing your troops on an objective with their own. So make your first target the immobilization (At least) of anything transporting TROOPS. Once they are down on the ground, then at best they can contest an objective with a tank shock, rather than gain one for their side. What this means is that you can then focus on holding enough objectives that contesting 1 or 2 with other vehicles is not going to lose you the game. Always remember that you only need 1 more objective than your foe to win! One of the easiest ways to lose a 40k game is to just "try and take all the objectives" rather than putting together a coherent plan for what objectives you're going to take, which ones you're going to faint towards, and which ones you're going to give up on (and at best shoot to contest).

While thinking about this, remember that in an objective game, all non-troop units are basically expendable. (I know certain tourney scenarios change this a bit, but for now lets think about the 3 core missions) Don't feel bad throwing away 300 points of Terminators to kill a Rhino, because ultimately, the Rhino can cost you the game far easier than the Terminators can win it for you in many situations. Make sure you don't get stuck in the old mindset of "make sure it kills it's points cost!", because tactical worth and points cost are 2 very different things in this edition. Be prepared to sacrifice large swathes of your army in order to take or hold objectives. This is especially true in the Capture and Control mission, where there are only 2 objectives.

Also keep tactical worth in mind when it comes to target selection. Once you've immobilized that Falcon, don't bother shooting it anymore, instead target the next mobile vehicle...I know the Falcon shooting back might kill a few models, but unless it's VITAL that you don't lose more models, step along to stopping the next biggest threat to your control of the board. Ideally you should be able to categorize the threats at the start of the game, and move down the list, re-evaluating quickly at the start of each of your turns.

The next step in protecting against the late round shock is to be very careful about where objectives are positioned, and where your own forces are in relation. This is easiest again in Capture and Control, where you can toss your objective as far back in your deployment zone as possible. Remember that MOST vehicles can move at best 18" a turn, and even the fastest can move only 24". Force your opponent to move their vehicles recklessly forward if they want to pull off the late game shock. Make sure that it is a tactical disadvantage for them to have their vehicles in a place where they can easily get to your objectives. This means things like anti-vehicle assault units, melta guns, plasma, or fast things that can get behind them if they get too far forward. Think about the effective threat range of your units, and picture the "bubbles" they lay down on the board. Make sure that plenty of those bubbles cover the approach to your objective. This is trickier the more objectives there are, but the same principles can still apply, as you need to minimize the number of objectives your opponent can get to late, while maximizing the ones you control. A great way to do this is to be able to get something BEHIND your foe, forcing them to turn the vehicles around to go get you off of the objectives they thought were safe in their own deployment zone. Use the positioning of your own forces to restrict where they can get with theirs.


As Shannon said, Death or Glory isn't the best plan for dealing with it, especially against things like Eldar skimmers with Holofields, but it is still a legitmate line of defense, and worth knowing how to maximize it's effectiveness. 1st things first, layering or "bubble wrapping" is a good idea if you have a bulk of infantry (IE blob imperial guard/orks etc). While it doesn't STOP a tank shock from taking place, it does give you better chances at your Death or Glory, as you get multiple chances at stopping that tank before it cruises on to your objective. You might lose a couple guys in the process, but it's much better than losing the game. What it also means is that if you force a disembark by destroying the vehicle, you may have been able to fold troops in behind the vehicle to cause the guys inside trouble.

So if you're going to death or glory, what to do it with? Well, the first choice is definately the Melta-Gun. Not only are you getting 2d6 armour pen, which comes as close as possible to guaranteeing a penetrating hit against a shocking tank, it comes with an even better bonus, which is the +1 to damage rolls that comes from being AP1. This means that your magic number for stopping the tank shock becomes a 3 instead of a 4, which is a significant increase. It also means that even a roll of 1 is a stunned result rather than shaken, which also stops the vehicle if it doesn't have extra armour, meaning only a roll of 2 would let the tank through (with a weapon destroyed). Most armies have some kind of melta weapon available to them, so load up in your infantry squads if you can. If not meltas, then anything AP1 becomes the next best choice.

Barring that, the Thunder Hammer is a good choice, as it automatically applies a Stunned result to any vehicle it inflicts a glance or penetrate against, so again barring extra armour it will stop the tank in it's tracks no matter what.

If those aren't available, then just use your highest strength weapon, as hitting automatically takes a lot of the guesswork out. Tankbusta or Melta bombs are great, though remember that even though the are Melta weapons they don't get AP1.

Be very careful with monstrous creatures....while they're great at ripping into tanks if they hit, a failed death or glory will squish them flat, so make sure it's worth it if you're going to try). For Nids dropping Spores on objectives is a great idea though, as you get a monstrous creature that they have to shock through, which has a good chance to tear up the tank but is of little value to you should it die.


There's also the old standby of "make them go first", giving you the last turn to remove them, but view this as more of an aid rather than a "plan" as even an immobile, weaponless vehicle can still get in the way of your objectives.

I think I may have had another thought on this, but it's vanished now...I'll put up other theories if I remember, but as it stand I'll leave you with a quick checklist for defending against a highly mechanized assault:

1. PLAN AHEAD: Designate targets and place objectives
2. TARGET EFFICIENTLY: Remember priorities while shooting
3. CONTROL THE MOVEMENT PHASE: objective placement and effective threat range
4. REMEMBER YOUR GOALS: plan for the win and expendable units
5. LAST LINE OF DEFENSE: get the most out of static units

Hope this helps!

[Jack Shrapnel]

Awesome guys thanks!

Any more thoughts on the matter?

[qwertywraith]

It occurs to me that tank shocking or ramming must be done in a straight line, so if you can put a rhino or another light vehicle between your objective and the attacking tank you can stop them from getting to your objective because the falcon must first ram the rhino (it's a few inches away so it can't damage it or isn't likely too). I don't think a skimmer can choose to fly over some vehicles and ram others. Blocking like this is a great way to use your land-speeders and vypers and to a lesser extent walkers. A defiler is nice because it's just do big it can be a big shield. Even late game drop pods can be used to cover lanes where falcons or raiders may come at you.

[Jack Shrapnel]

as far as I understand, myetic spores have the "immobile" rule... so dropping one right on top of an objective (assuming you don't scatter all over the place) might work.... they'd have to kill the spore (they're not that tough, but a MC with S6 is still something)

[Tommy]

Usually when I face a list that screams tanks shock..(Andrew im looking at you ) I try a few steps to avoid the dreaded last turn BAM! you lose all objectives..

1. Target the transports, it may seem obvious but even when you blow off all of the guns still target them if you have guns free.
2. Camp your own vehicles, remember they can't tank shock you if there's a vehicle in the way or even better sitting on your objective.
3. Give up first turn, you want to be haveing the last say with those kidns of lists, so whatever you do don't take first turn.
4. Kill his troops so he won't be holding any objectives, then if you follow the other steps you've got yourself a game you can handle..

[thesanityassassin]

www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=&categoryId=§ion=&pIndex=0&aId=9800017a&start=1

This is up on the GW site. I know their tactics articles aren't always exactly in depth, but this seemed worth a read.