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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 8, 2010 12:18:32 GMT -5
We've got a little bit of time into the system... so what do we think of 8th compared to 7th?
Did GW balance the universe and make a fun system for all?
Or have they just found new and interesting ways to break the hobby?
let's have a poll!
And you get to vote twice -> intent is for your second vote to be one of the two last options, whether you want to play it more or less with the new edition... first vote is kind of an overall like or dislike
I know it's early in and we won't hold you to your choice forever!
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Post by thesanityassassin on Sept 8, 2010 13:26:58 GMT -5
It hasn't been my cup of tea thus far, to tell the truth. I find my Elves have actually become quite a bit better, and my deathstar is just foolish, but I'm really not fond of magic this edition, or how quickly combat is entered, or how easy it is to make up for a foolish move or survive being flank charged. With the free hop for your characters, I don't even care if some of my bigger units get flanked, I win combat half the time anyway.
There is certainly some fun to have with the game, but I find it's becoming much more "beer and pretzels" than it was before.
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Post by stonecutter on Sept 8, 2010 17:28:57 GMT -5
I like a lot of 8th edition but I think it has definitely been dumbed down somewhat. Here, in no particular order, are my own personal likes and dislikes:
LIKE 1. terrain not bogging down the game if a unit goes into it. 2. simpler charge rules and measurements. 3. ranked infantry finally has value. 4. single monsters and characters can be held up and even wounded by a ranked unit - even broken if you get real lucky. 5. stepping up to fight allows a lot more dice rolling, along with supporting attacks. 6. it is now possible to fight daemons and vamps with a "normal" army and have a decent chance of winning - actually a really good chance vs vamps since they were severely neutered!!
DISLIKES 1. Magic - far too powerful, especially the #6 spells in almost every lore. 2. Magic - even the minor buffs and hexes are so good that you can't leave home without a level 4 just to give you the +4 to dispel attempts. 3. high elf ASF and re-rolls, sallies, and some other units out there that I can't think of that have become ridiculously powerful for their points value. 4. terrain not providing real cover for movement due to "true line of sight". 5. Shooting requiring no guesses and being able to target virtually anywhere on the board.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 8, 2010 18:43:46 GMT -5
agree wholeheartedly with your dislikes and likes Frank... I'll add that rolling all terrain and trying to make everything from the tables really slows down the game and adds a little too much strangeness for me... that's how I think terrain actually bogs down the game now...
... and woodelves having to avoid the woods because they'll die is just stupid. (because you don't know what kind of wood it'll be until you enter it)
I dislike magic this edition... really do.... gets pretty bad when you're relieved that you're only facing a level four demon caster, rather than a level two with shadow magic... a disposable level 2 than can throw six dice on a gamebreaking spell to IF....
I like more ranked infantry... enjoy seeing big armies fully painted, tromping across the field...
being able to see through a forest just doesn't make sense to me... never did in 40k... doesn't in 8th...
I actually like the changes to charging... and that charges aren't the be all and end all....
I really like the wider selection of common magic items... and I'm a fan of different scenarios other than pitched battle... except for the randomly placing your units in different sections one... i'm really not sure what they were thinking there....
So in my opinion they fixed some stuff and broke other stuff.... No more balanced than 7th, as you still have a few armies that can't compete... a couple over the top ones with broken builds (you know who you are!) and a bunch in the middle that can relatively compete... that's what we had in 7th... just with different guys in the top and bottom.... okay some of the same guys are hitting the bottom still... but new army books are coming! (I hope)
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Post by usscott on Sept 10, 2010 8:13:10 GMT -5
i think what frak say if close to the money tho i do like the not all the war machien rule . and i dont think you can think of the army win you are ack what we think of the rule .tel we get the codexs rell we just got 2/3 to 1/2 the rule the codex are the other 1/2
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Post by fritzthedwarf on Sept 10, 2010 12:53:22 GMT -5
Yeah I preferred guess range for war machines. Magic does seem over the top in some cases. The terrain is bizarre in that so many pieces can have weird effects. Is every battlefield across the land a patch of magical/mysterious territory? Though I also like that terrain is easier to move through. Seeing through a forest is odd.
I like the changes to charging and infantry so that troops can fight back more so than before (stepping up).
The scenario where you place units randomly in sections is ridiculous (apart from a one of game for fun) and hopefully it will not show up in tourneys as it will really screw up some armies worse than others.
Hard to say whether I think 8th is better, the same or worse than 7th since I have limited experience with it.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 13, 2010 10:04:34 GMT -5
I totally agree with the whole guess range thing being removed... not sure why they would feel the need to take something out of the game that required player skill... how about those dwarf / empire players who spent all that time actually developing the skill to accurately guess ranges properly??? guess it makes it easier for new players... which may have been their intent... but I'm not a fan (even if it makes my warmachines more accurate )
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Post by fritzthedwarf on Sept 13, 2010 12:42:36 GMT -5
I played Michael's empire army on Thursday and his 3 great cannons, mortar and steam tank just destroyed my war machines fairly quickly. Same thing happened in an earlier game against Scott's skaven. His lightning cannons destroyed all my war machines on the first turn (with some good rolling). My early impressions with 8th is that my dwarf army should go heavy in war machines or heavy in something else. Having only a few war machines seem to get taken out quickly with lack of guess range and the ability of cannon to fire through troops and terrain.
Reading over the spells in the rulebook some of the spells are a little over the top (purple sun, dwellers, pit of shades)(does GW hate low initiative armies?). In the 3 three games I played on Thursday a few spells were IF so my dispelling was useless. Still not sure what to make of 8th edition - first turn can be critical.
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Post by justice7ca on Sept 13, 2010 14:05:02 GMT -5
I'd have to say I was a little let down by the 8th changes; it addressed things that I didn't really feel needed addressing, while leaving some other things untouched.
I was fully expecting combat to be restructured, and new stat lines brought out for all army codexes to level the playing field.
What I was expecting to see is the amount of rolling during combat reduced. It is a little strange as a newcomer, to see that first you have to hit and then wound... rather than bundling the 'to hit' and 'to wound' together into one single roll versus a 'defense' value.
Defense would have been made up of WS and T, and an Attack strength made up of WS and S. Find an algorithm that works between those, and roll Attack vs Defense... each success equals a wound.
But hey, maybe in a later edition. The traditional way always seemed .. wonky.. to me.
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Post by fritzthedwarf on Sept 21, 2010 17:01:02 GMT -5
I'm curious about the powerful spells in 8th. How have those that have used (or been hit by) spells like purple sun, dwellers, pit of shades, etc found the experience? With risks of miscasts was it worth the points? Did you use suicide mages or some other tactic to minimize the damage to yourself and did it work fairly well or not? Are you able to try to get these powerful spells off first turn? And does this seem a novelty that will wear off or will these powerful spells be a regular part of your lists?
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 21, 2010 17:46:54 GMT -5
the suicide mage can really hurt badly - especially against low initiative armies, which seem to get hit the worst by things such as pit of shades... pit and dwellers is only one unit (yeah only!) so alot of times it's not the end of your army... but an ogre or dwarf army getting purple sun'd is pretty over the top brutal...
I had it happen to me playing undead (real bad initiative there too) but luckily the roll wasn't good, so the damage pretty minimal...
I haven't had many of the game-changer spells go through (IF isn't a sure thing even on six dice) mostly though because I think people aren't really wanting to use them as much....
the threat of miscast I don't think is that much of a deterrent though, especially with a lower level mage... alot of the results don't really do a lot (as long as you're not sticking him on a bell/furnace that is!) small template on the corner of a unit... yeah, it'll kill a few guys... not much of a risk compared to what these big spells are capable of when you get them off...
the times I've either been hit with the big ones though, or see someone hit by them... doesn't seem like it's a fun experience for either player.... hard to say anything but "gee, sorry about that" when you see the devastation the big ones have....
not much fun there....
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Post by fritzthedwarf on Sept 21, 2010 20:20:56 GMT -5
I heard in forums that many tournaments in Europe have banned the power scroll because of it being too powerful.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Sept 21, 2010 21:51:56 GMT -5
Frank was talking about banning the level six spells due to the same reasons....
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Post by LizardTau on Sept 22, 2010 5:29:47 GMT -5
yeah like i haven't played many games in 8th yet cause i have been busy but i have had two games already where i got off a good spell and it took out almost half an army. Once agesnt you with that chain lightning, and once my purple sun against a tomb kings. Both times i was surprized how much damage they did
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Post by danydaigle24 on Sept 22, 2010 5:58:09 GMT -5
I really hope you guys won't start to change rules and ban some stuff.... it's part of the game you have to dealt with it.... can you imagine if you ban all lvl 6 spell when you will go to lets say Toronto or Mtl for tornament they will use it...
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