The magic phase

[Jack Shrapnel]

Just looking at tactics that we use to manage the new magic phase that 8th ed has brought us....

how do you defend against the level six spells that can truly end the game with one cast?

Is a level four caster mandatory?

What other forms of magic defense do you use now that you can only have one scroll?

How have you changed the way you cast or approach magic this edition?

[usscott]

feedback scroll if a real nice one

[fritzthedwarf]

For my dwarfs I take a runesmith, Master Rune of Valaya (+2 to dispel) and 3 spellbreaking runes to try to minimize the magic phase, however, is there anything that can be done (maybe a mgic item or something) to stop IF spells?

In the few games I have played of 8th, it is the powerful spells cast with IF that can can such damage that I think you can do nothing against. Is there something that can reduce the chance of IF in your opponents casting?

[Jack Shrapnel]

I almost fear the level 2 sacrifical caster MORE than the level 4 lord, as the lord generally doesn't want to risk getting sucked into the warp.... okay exception is Slaan, who can just bounce that miscast onto you....

one online that was particularly gross... level 1 vampire with forbidden lore, hellsteed and power scroll. Turn one flies next to your army, throws six dice with power scroll to purple sun irresistably across your whole army... any doubles is irresistable, so pretty certain.... costs less than 200 points to completely wreck a low initiative army....

[fritzthedwarf]

Yeah that kind of thing is pretty sick. I don't know why GW thought that having game breaking spells would be appealing. You spend the time making your list, painting your army, set it up to play, the opponent gets first turn and does as you mention with something like an IF Purple Sun or other potent spell and ends the game before you even go. How is this fun? Even though it can fail and some miscasts can be devastating to the caster's army, these types of things make the game less enjoyable to even want to play in the first place.

I think long term GW shot themselves in the foot or you may see lots of 'houserule' stuff used to limit these spells.

[Jack Shrapnel]

interestingly enough, dwarfs and daemons are in the best shape for magic defense, partly due to the ability to take multiple dispel runes/gifts and having plenty of magic resistance, buffs to dispel, etc.

so if you've got one scroll... and no MR.... what do you do to counter this???

a couple things I've tried (with varying levels of success)

1. more bodies - accepting that losses are going to occur, and sometimes very high... in armies I can do it (ie: skaven) use the points I can to increase unit sizes as much as possible.

2. active magic defense - ie: kill that caster! more than ever I think it's important to target priority, and engage the caster's unit... be sure that whatever you send is either big or tough enough to do the job though!

3. sacrifical lambs - whether it's blocking line of sight, trying for the caster kill (realizing that the unit will die however) or in some other way "taking one for the team"... someone's got to eat that spell - might as well be someone you care little about! (some armies can do this more easily than others... ogres + runemaw + gnoblars = cheap and easy way to let someone else enjoy that spell)

[fritzthedwarf]

Shannon, I agree that doing whatever you can to kill the casters before you lose to much will be a central focus of battles.

Do you think magic will cause people to take less super powerful characters for fear of losing something very expensive in one magic attack?

[Edg3ofR3ason]

Most setups I've been reading are suggesting that dwarfs should be able to handle the magic phase with one of the following:

1. Runelord+anvil+MR balance+dispell = add 2+1+1 dice and have +2 to each dispell or
2. Runesmith+MR balance+dispel = add 1+1 dice and have +2 to each dispell
point difference though is huge 140+175+50+25=390 vs 70+50+25=145

If you then add MR Valaya 65+25+100=190 which adds +2 to each dispel + autodispel each remain in play.

I'm not sure that the MR Valaya is a 'must have' - yes having a +5 to every dispel [2+anvil+valaya] would really shut things down but your bsb is essentially naked. I may yet give it a try.

Remember to that dwarfs can use all of their power dice to dispel remains in play spells every round ;D. kinda nearly a sure thing I think. Unless of course your a like me and get 1s when you need 6s and 6s when you need 1s

I've run the runesmith+MR balance+dispel a few times and it has been okay. The way I look at it is your opponent will most likely get IF once per game, and hopefully it will be on a lesser spell rather than a game changer, then bye bye wizard.

What frustates me are the spells that generate more dice to cast spells, especially when its done near the end of the magic phase.

Ah if only to have a dwarf sharp shooter option. ;D

[Jack Shrapnel]

hochland rifle on thunderers maybe?

A bolt thrower that could snipe characters?

yeah... I think the second one would be....fair?

[stonecutter]

How about the dwarf organ gun sniper. That would really put a crimp in some wizard's day ;D

[stonecutter]

Well, as magic has both offence and defence, I have two parts. On the offence, I refuse to cast the #6 spells - they are simply too game changing and to have a single roll decide the entire game, likely from a distance, isn't my idea of fun. I much prefer the augment/hex lores and spells so that the magic can SUPPORT other activities. On the magic defence, I figure I can only stop 1-2 spells depending on the number of DD and save the scroll for the killer spell. Apart from that, I have never been averse to suiciding a unit in to kill a wizard since anything short of elites generally earn their points back quite easily. Fast cav are particularly good in this regard as the vanguard puts them into postion very quickly.

[Edg3ofR3ason]

hmm......fast cav dwarves......interesting.
Hey, who knows GW may bring out a bear riding dwarf!

[stonecutter]

Sept 21, 2010 21:31:53 GMT -5 Edg3ofR3ason said:

hmm......fast cav dwarves......interesting.
Hey, who knows GW may bring out a bear riding dwarf!

A dwarf army with the anvil essentially is an entire army of suicide troops waiting to answer the call to glory ;D

[usscott]

ok if tha do bear mriding dwarf i am starting a dwarf army