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Post by inverse on Jan 25, 2016 15:34:30 GMT -5
I am not sure if this is the right spot for this but I am wondering what everyone's experience with space marine librarians are? I ran one in all 3 games of the challenge bracket and he did a grand total of jack squat. He is not good enough in combat to really fight anything. Since he is deathwing and not ravenwing he is fearless and cannot hit and run out of combat. There was one chance where he had the chance to make a game changing ignores cover against a ravenwing command squad but was denied by the opposing player rolling 3 sixes.
I tool up my librarian to fill a sort of swiss army knife roll. He has an auspex and melta bombs and normally rolls on Interromancy. Roams around on a bike lowering cover saves of anything black knights shoot at and can split off on his own to take down tanks/grab objectives.
Would I be better suited by just dropping him for more normal dudes with grav? His psychic defense hasn't really proved to be useful to me either. Seems like there would be times where some powers can be game breaking but a lot of things need to align for it to happen and its unreliable.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jan 25, 2016 16:09:21 GMT -5
I've pretty much abandoned psychic powers for all my armies save nids (who need it to survive) and daemons (who likewise need it to survive) I find it's either all in or don't bother, and that's why I never bring a single librarian in a list. They occasionally are able to get a power or two off for certain, but it never seems like they justify the cost. I'd probably find a similar result if I had one nid psyker too... either two ML2, or one ML3 would be my minimum investment in that phase if I were going to do it at all. (which most of the times I don't) but your mileage may vary of course
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Post by LizardTau on Jan 25, 2016 16:21:04 GMT -5
I agree. I use to bring a libby with my blood angels but ended up doing no psychic at all. just found they never did much.
and Ive never done psychic in my tau for some reason.
my daemons are all psychic tho.
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Post by raceygaming on Jan 25, 2016 16:27:57 GMT -5
I think Libs are pretty much a Grey Knight only list thing now, with exception for some special HQ units.
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Post by thesanityassassin on Jan 25, 2016 16:30:09 GMT -5
Per the first part - did we not rule (and did GW not rule in a recent FAQ?) that Dark Angel characters on bikes get the Ravenwing rule? I could be mistaken.
Otherwise, I generally only see Librarians run with the Conclave, which is its own special brand of disgusting, and generally involves creating a summoning factory or something by passing Perils off to all the Lv. 1's it brings along.
I run a Sorcerer with my Word Bearers, largely because Chaos HQ's are very "all or nothing", and not wanting to take a tooled out Chaos Lord a little bit of psychic support has felt more useful than anything a basic Lord could bring. His results are generally either "does nothing" or "does something spectacular" based on what powers I roll and my dice luck casting them - For every time he manages to get off Iron Arm and Warp Speed and solo a unit, there's that time he rolls Perils on 2 dice casting something unnecessary and blows himself up.
My ultimate feeling with them is that they can be really fun and fluffy, and can occasionally go off for big damage, but are 100% not reliable enough to be taken seriously in a competitive list outside of that one formation.
...I'm probably still taking a Sorcerer or two to the Club Championship.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jan 25, 2016 17:36:18 GMT -5
yes, ravenwing characters on bikes can be ravenwings... that is ruled in a GW FAQ so said librarian could be ravenwing
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Post by mraven on Jan 25, 2016 17:51:53 GMT -5
No, they don't get the Ravenwing special rule. The FAQ just states that an HQ on a bike can act as the mandatory HQ choice in a Ravenwing Strike Force detachment. Here's my Dark Angel experience with librarians - If he's on a bike, it can limit the powers you can use. The reason for this is that if you are on a bike you are going to be jinking, and jinking renders your Witchfire/Focused Witchfire/Nova powers useless. Interromancy is cool, but 3 of your 7 powers are witchfire. Pyromancy is 5/7, Telekinesis 4/7, while Telepathy is only 1/7 and divination is 0/7. These are combo's I've used in the past: - Fear + Interromancy/Telekinesis. Get your Librarians Fear whenever you can, either by Eye of Unseen, Perfidious Relic, or Darkshroud. I always forget that the Darkshroud causes Fear. Fear works well with either Interromancy or Telepathy powers.
- Deep Strike Pyromancy. Either drop pod or terminators. Combine with an assault squad with flamers, veterans or command squad with flamer/melta, or just terminators. I guarantee you that melta and templates in his back lines will mess up your opponent's plan.
- Divination + barrage. Whirlwinds with shred + twin-linked + rending from Presience and Misfortune are amazing.
- The Hunt warlord trait. Your Warlord's shooting attacks ignore cover. WItchfire and Nova powers are treated as shooting attacks. Congratulations, all your psychic powers now ignore cover. (Maelstrom of Misery + Ignores Cover is brutal)
- Mind Worm + Intimidating Presence warlord trait. You can reduce an entire unit's leadership by just hitting one model. Combine with Mind Wipe, Trephination, or Psychic Shriek.
I'm going to try a Librarius Conclave list at some point to see how many librarians I can fit into my army.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jan 25, 2016 19:53:18 GMT -5
Well that's dumb that they don't get the ravenwing rule.
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Post by thesanityassassin on Jan 25, 2016 22:06:27 GMT -5
Re: Nova Powers - These powers are not a blast and do not roll to hit at all to the best of my knowledge. Does jink affect them at all?
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jan 25, 2016 22:14:16 GMT -5
nope, you can nova all day
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Post by mraven on Jan 25, 2016 22:54:48 GMT -5
Page 27 - Nova: "A nova power automatically targets and hits all enemy units within the psychic power's maximum range[...] Otherwise, a nova is treated like a shooting attack, and indeed will have a profile like a ranged weapons."
Witchfire: "Witchfire powers are shooting attacks."
Page 33 - Snap Shots: "In addition, any shooting attack that does not use Ballistic Skill cannot be 'fired' as a snap shot."
If you jink, have gone to ground, or are affected by any other rule that would make you snap fire, you can not use a Nova power.
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Post by inverse on Jan 25, 2016 23:20:39 GMT -5
Yeah our faq gave DA characters with bikes ravenwing but then GW faq came out a few days later and erased that hope. Which is fair I think since we have a 10 pt item that gives fnp and shrouded when the character is not in a unit.
2++ rerolling jinking 5+ fnp characters are pretty broken.
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Post by voodoo on Jan 26, 2016 8:29:07 GMT -5
Just shoot them with a Sicaran then, or a Typhon… 6x S7 Ap4 Rending, Rapid Tracking or a S10 Ap1 7” Blast, Ignore cover. (Rapid tracking ignores jink saves)
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jan 26, 2016 9:49:03 GMT -5
isn't forgeworld ALWAYS the answer? lol...
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Post by voodoo on Jan 26, 2016 10:10:06 GMT -5
More often than not it's a problem remover/equalizer.
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