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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jan 10, 2017 9:19:54 GMT -5
Taken from the Tyranid Hive:
It could be argued that the roll for the Cult Ambush table takes place when deploying a giving unit that is arriving from Reserves, in which case "roll deploy, roll deploy" would be appropriate. But it could also be argued that the roll for how the unit will be deployed must be made before the unit is actually deployed, while the unit is still "arriving" from Reserves.
The last sentence on page 135 of the basic rulebook reads: "Note that you must first roll for all Reserves, and then move any arriving Reserves, before any other units can move." Which certainly supports the latter interpretation with regard to using Cult Ambush when arriving from Reserves, and it logically follows the same method would apply to using Cult Ambush when arriving via Infiltrate.
I've been doing roll then deploy, roll then deploy, etc. It's the less powerful option and does make it a bit more challenging to plan an overall strategy. However, as always it's important to know the proper way the rules work. Especially with the biggest tourney of the year coming up in a month and the cults will be present (not me, but from others)
so the question is... how does this work? (in absence of any FAQ from GW on the cults unfortunately)
do you roll all of your cult ambushes then deploy
or do you roll and deploy each unit one at a time?
As always - the question is not which is better (as one is clearly better) but which is supported by the rules?
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Post by thesanityassassin on Jan 10, 2017 9:25:22 GMT -5
What's the exact wording on Cult Ambush? Is there any reason it wouldn't follow standard reserve processes? I don't think I ever considered that you wouldn't just roll for all of them before hand - seems in line with how the game is played, and also less disruptive to usual play orders, as it stops a player from having to stop and reconsider placement again and again.
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Post by cmcd on Jan 10, 2017 10:32:11 GMT -5
After looking in the rule book and codex and then this post. I would argue that if a unit is arriving from reserve first you would roll for that unit as per arriving from reserves.once all your reserve rolls are done ( reserve roll ect. 3+... not cult ambush) then you deploy individual units as per the rules of cult ambush. Roll a dice, place said unit. Select a new unit that has passed it's reserve roll. Now roll a dice for cult ambush and place the unit.
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Post by danny1995 on Jan 10, 2017 10:36:04 GMT -5
Yeah, I would assume it would be the same as deep striking. Roll all, Scatter one, Scatter next, etc.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jan 10, 2017 10:40:34 GMT -5
problem is, I can see arguments for both ways... and no one online seems to be of the same mind at all. I'm less concerned for myself (I've been doing roll then deploy each unit one at a time and it works out okay, albeit as Matt said above it is slower by far as you have to keep re-adjusting tactics and deployment each time)
rules say you do ALL your reserve rolls first...
cult ambush says that when you come in from ongoing reserve or if you have infiltrate instead of infiltrating you can do cult ambush instead. it actually doesn't say anything about doing all the rolls together or one at a time... you know, cuz GW....
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Post by cmcd on Jan 10, 2017 17:09:48 GMT -5
Cult ambush is not reserve rolls.
Main rule book page 135. " At the start of your second turn, you must roll a D6 for each unit in your army that is being held in reserve - these are known as Reserve Rolls. ...
" When reserves arrive , pick one of your arriving units and DEPLOY it...."
Cult ambush says. "Units that deploy or arrive by Cult Ambush roll on the table below..."
Seems pretty cut and dry to me.
Deploy each unit one at a time.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jan 10, 2017 17:53:42 GMT -5
Cult Ambush is in place of infiltrate or ongoing reserves
no where does it actually say it's one at a time and you have to place immediately upon rolling.
hence my question.
I've been rolling, then placing, resolving one unit at a time. As that is the least powerful option and when in doubt that's what I choose.
However, I'm not playing cults at the club championship... in fact I'm not playing in the tourney at all...
but others are.
so therefore having this clear beforehand is helpful for people.
I've seen it argued BOTH ways with rules support for each.
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Post by thesanityassassin on Jan 10, 2017 18:58:01 GMT -5
I don't have access to a rulebook right at the moment to compare wording, but would Outflank be a decent precedent for it? If I have multiple units out outflankers arrive from reserves, I figure out which edge each unit comes from before I deploy any of them.
I mean, giving Cults the more powerful option does nothing to help me at all, it just feels more functional in game terms to resolve all the rolls at once and then start moving models, especially in a large game with a strict time limit.
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Post by LizardTau on Jan 10, 2017 19:02:10 GMT -5
would it not just go when the thing it is replacing go
Ie: if its replacing infiltrating you would roll them and deploy them one at a time like you were infiltrating, and if its replacing on going reserves you would roll them all at once and then place them like they were coming in from reserves.
or am i crazy?
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Post by blork on Jan 12, 2017 6:18:56 GMT -5
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jan 12, 2017 6:47:23 GMT -5
well ITC says:
Genestealer Cults: Servo Skulls and GSC: Servo Skulls do not affect the GSC Cult Ambush rule.
Genestealer Cults: Cult Ambush:
Units deploying via the Cult Ambush rule at the beginning of the game do so during the infiltration step of set up. They may move during the first turn of the game as they have been deployed before the game begins. They may shoot normally during the first turn and count as stationary if they choose to not move in the movement phase.
If a 5 is rolled on the Cult Ambush table, a unit deployed using Cult Ambush may immediately fire its weapons at a target unit after they have deployed during the infiltration step.
When units are summoned via powers from the Brood Mind psychic tree and arrive via Cult Ambush, they count as if they moved in the movement phase.
Units set up using the Cult Ambush rule may not charge on the first turn of the game unless a 6 is rolled on the Cult Ambush table.
Units coming onto the board after the first turn (such as summoning or ongoing reserves) via the Cult Ambush rule are subject to Coteaz’s “I’ve Been Expecting You”. Units arriving via Cult Ambush during deployment are not subject to Coteaz’s “I’ve Been Expecting You” rule.
Units that arrive via Cult Ambush during deployment are not eligible to be shot by weapons with the interceptor rule. Units arriving via ongoing reserves are subject to fire from weapons with the interceptor rule.
...............
so unfortunately, this is the one thing they DON'T clarify! (and they allow move after setup in cult ambush first turn? hmmm)
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Post by LizardTau on Jan 12, 2017 6:56:09 GMT -5
I believe what they are hinting at but not out right saying it.
During deployment you do it like infiltration. One at a time.
And any time after that its like reserve rolls. All at once. But that maybe be just my understanding. Not 100% sure.
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Post by voodoo on Jan 12, 2017 8:35:41 GMT -5
lol, servo skulls don't exist anymore; they sure as shit won't affect anything in game as they're now just fancy bits and bobs on a model.
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Post by Jack Shrapnel on Jan 12, 2017 8:49:10 GMT -5
Well until I get some GW clarity, I need to make a decision at least for our tournament, so:
"When deploying a unit by cult ambush. Roll on the cult ambush table and place the unit before rolling for the next unit on the cult ambush table. "
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Post by LizardTau on Jan 12, 2017 11:10:36 GMT -5
Sounds good to me. Makes it more of a gamble. if you get a 6 your not sure if it will be your only 6 or not.
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